Request for comment from Leica re M(240) delivery (or lack thereof)

[jdlaing]

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September was when I placed my order, so it is indeed nearly 8 months now.

 

I happen to agree that some communication about the supply is appropriate from Leica. And I disagree with the notion that dealers know what is in the pipeline. Mine at least doesn't know about shipments from Leica NJ until the day before. I have a trip coming up in June and still have no idea whether I will have a camera or not beforehand. I am not going crazy because I kept my M9 but it would be nice to know and it is frustrating to hear nothing at all.

 

No one of us is terribly important to Leica in the grand scheme, so I don't expect Leica to call me, but apparently I am not alone and my dealer is not alone in being completely in the dark, so a general statement about where deliveries stand would be appreciated.

 

What was the release date od the M(240)?

[AlanJW]

What was the release date od the M(240)?

 

I had an order in before the announcement. The first deliveries were made at the end of February. I'm next at my dealer (someone got in even earlier than I) but he has receiver nothing since February 28, which is 2 1/2 months ago.

[chris_tribble]

A London Dealer I've talked with has the same problem - nothing for 2 months. It's crippling for business.

[k-hawinkler]

A London Dealer I've talked with has the same problem - nothing for 2 months. It's crippling for business.

 

 

Hi Chris,

 

I would think so.

Naively I would assume there has to be a basic reason why not more cameras are being shipped.

Maybe it is not in Leica's best interest that the reason becomes known outside the company.

Or at least the powers in charge think so.

[gravastar]

A London Dealer I've talked with has the same problem - nothing for 2 months. It's crippling for business.

On Friday I collected a 35mm Summilux FLE from a London dealer. They told me in that morning their phone hadn't stopped ringing with calls from Europe asking about M240 deliveries. The number of calls was into double digits!.

 

Bob.

[viramati]

A London Dealer I've talked with has the same problem - nothing for 2 months. It's crippling for business.

 

Too true, though I believe he may have had a delivery of 30 or so batteries which are obviously really useful without a camera

[CaptZoom]

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Leica is in the process of reasserting themselves as the company that caters to professional photographers. Last century, the professionals were photo journalists; they were recognized as professionals and were paid accordingly. Now the professional photographers are fashion and commercial photographers. They are compensated accordingly, and can afford Leica's professional grade cameras/gear. The medium format market segment is where Leica wants to dominate. Perhaps they are focusing more resources to help attain this goal, versus the M line. In any case, here's an interview regarding this topic:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/marcbabej/2013/05/08/how-leica-camera-is-reinventing-the-medium-format-market-on-its-own-terms/2/

[AJB]

If this is correct (and I did read the article, which is about the S2) then in my view Leica are dreaming. Professionals want product availability. Cameras are business tools to professionals and waiting months on end for a manufactured to get its act together on supply chain is not part of the agenda.

 

I am not a professional and I have other cameras so I don't really care, but I do happen to think that Leica are making a right hash of the M240 launch. Inept.

[CaptZoom]

I have no idea regarding the availability of the S system.

[brusby]

I love my M9 but if Leica can't satisfy the demands of their casual and non-professional users, they must be dreaming to think they'll be the system of choice for a sizable number professionals.

 

Why would any professional choose to have his or her livelihood depend on a camera system for which replacement bodies and/or lenses are often not readily available and for which weeks or months long warranty service seems to be the rule rather than the exception?

[CaptZoom]

I understand what you're saying and according to Leica, they've already captured 20% of the MF market!

[erl]

I love my M9 but if Leica can't satisfy the demands of their casual and non-professional users, they must be dreaming to think they'll be the system of choice for a sizable number professionals.

 

Why would any professional choose to have his or her livelihood depend on a camera system for which replacement bodies and/or lenses are often not readily available and for which weeks or months long warranty service seems to be the rule rather than the exception?

 

I'm not about to disagree with you, but over the last 50+ years I have worked professionally with Mamiya, Hasselblad, Pentax, Nikon and Leica. For all of those systems, I took control of my backup support by always duplicating bodies as as minimum and and sometimes focal lengths with lenses. Having 'loaner' gear from suppliers was nice, but not always available. My own stuff was always there. It was solely my responsibly to remain functional.

[brusby]

I'm not about to disagree with you, but over the last 50+ years I have worked professionally with Mamiya, Hasselblad, Pentax, Nikon and Leica. For all of those systems, I took control of my backup support by always duplicating bodies as as minimum and and sometimes focal lengths with lenses. Having 'loaner' gear from suppliers was nice, but not always available. My own stuff was always there. It was solely my responsibly to remain functional.

 

I agree completely -- a well prepared pro should never be without backup. And that's precisely my point; with some Leica gear, like the new M, it's almost impossible to get one new body, much less two or more. So, for that reason alone, I'd have to seriously consider other manufacturers whose products are readily available and easy to get.

[pop]

September was when I placed my order, so it is indeed nearly 8 months now.

 

Of course, you can count your months any way you want. However, to be truthful, the camera was announced in September 2012 and launched end of February 2013. In realistic terms, the camera has been out for a little less than three months. As far as we can tell, the launch date was on or close to schedule.

 

You can't blame Leica for your waiting before the camera even existed. Otherwise, you could have put your order for the "next M type camera" right in September 2009 when the M9 was being announced and now claim a wait time of three years and eight months.

[jaapv]

If this is correct (and I did read the article, which is about the S2) then in my view Leica are dreaming. Professionals want product availability. Cameras are business tools to professionals and waiting months on end for a manufactured to get its act together on supply chain is not part of the agenda.

 

I am not a professional and I have other cameras so I don't really care, but I do happen to think that Leica are making a right hash of the M240 launch. Inept.

I see no indication that the M is conceived for the professional market except as a marketing vehicle. The professional market is far too small to have any commercial interest. Consider that Leica needs to sell twenty to forty times the number of S cameras sold for the M to be a success.

That the camera is suitable for a number of professional applications is a niche within a niche. Of course Lei8ca is happy to extend courtesies like professional service and loaners etc., it would be foolish not to, but the camera was designed for the advanced amateur.

[chris_tribble]

. Of course Leica is happy to extend courtesies like professional service and loaners etc., it would be foolish not to, but the camera was designed for the advanced amateur.

 

Jaap - far be it from me to jump in here, but I'm trying to find the evidence that says the M series was designed for "the advanced amateur"... (other than the idiotic IMHO Hermes tendency - but there were gold plated Nikon FMs in the past too...)

 

Isn't it the case that the camera is designed for photographers? Some users make their living with it, others don't. Some only use an M system, others use it when it's appropriate and have other systems for other purposes... The M has certain unique features which make it ideal for some applications - that's why I use it. It's a bit like saying that the iPhone camera was designed for amateur consumers - think of the professional work that has been done with simple tools like this since they were introduced.

 

[CaptZoom]

Kecia's definition of a professional photographer is fairly narrow and pretty much excludes the M series user. The Forbes article/interview is quite interesting. Give it a read, when you have the time.

[jaapv]

We are on the same page I think, Chris. But the S series was designed through consulting with a panel of professionals to finalize the concept, The M is designed to be a development of an existing concept that finds the bulk of its users on the amateur market. That does not preclude a number of professionals to be amateurs (in the original sense of the word) or a number of amateurs to work on the same or higher level as a professional (HCB and Ansel Adams were not dependent on their photography for a living).

My point is that Leica can-must sell the S on the professional market and can-must sell the M on the non-professional market.

This obviously has nothing to do with the use that individual photographers can and will put the cameras to.

[erl]

More simply put, "they must sell!"

 

But of course to do that, "they must produce!"

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[MarkP]

Another 100 posts in yet another thread on this topic and still silence from Leica.

 

This is not a standard camera and lens company but one that has, over the years, relied on an intimate association with it's customer base. Well, so I thought...

 

It's not that I can't wait for the M, and if the first offer is not in the colour I ordered I'm happy to wait for the next round. After all I have an M9, Monochrom, and enough lenses, but I believe that the delays do justify an explanation.