digitalfx Posted April 29, 2013 Share #381 Posted April 29, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) Agree that LV and buffer are terrific to have. I appreciate the quieter shutter too for my street/candid shooting not to mention R lens capability when ever we see the adapter. Maybe it is being redesigned to swivel like many R telephotos do for landscape to portrait and back. Yes I forgot about the quieter shutter...major update. I used to get looks with the M9's obnoxious shutter. I bundled the addition if R lenses into LV, since its only possible w/ LV. The R adapter has been around for awhile, but only possible on the M w/ LV. The R 100mm APO Macro has become my new favorite lens. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted April 29, 2013 Posted April 29, 2013 Hi digitalfx, Take a look here M Color. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
jaapv Posted April 29, 2013 Share #382 Posted April 29, 2013 Actually I find a single bottom plate to remove a far better concept than little doors and rubber lids all over the camera. Also the way it can take handgrips is really well thought out.And of course it is short on functions. The point of the camera is that it is as free of gimmicks as possible. I find it a bit sad that the M240 is sliding towards the common denominator... I shoot with The 5D2 and 5D3 + Leica M8, M9, M10 I agree with all your points below. Leica is way behind the curve on just basic functions that are standard on far cheaper cameras. I has disappointed to see that the 240 still had the lame bottom plate. Its such a PITA to use...it was a novelty on the M8, which clearly lost its appeal on the M9. When it showed up on the M10 I couldnt believe it was still here. Its a shame we are expected to accept these oddities just because its still an M camera at heart. I think Leica needs to up the game now. The 240 is clearly a step in the right direction, but its also two steps back. Back to the topic of color. The 240 is not that far off. The tweaks will happen from Leica im sure. There is too much saturation and the color temp is off in certain lighting conditions. But for the most part I have no problems quickly adjusting the color for now and get exceptional results in the matter of seconds using LR4.4. I much prefer the look of the 240 over the M9, and honestly would not go back to the M9 if you paid me. The addition of Live View under certain circumstances and the fact that the buffer does not disable the camera after 9 shots are the two most valuable options for me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
erl Posted April 29, 2013 Share #383 Posted April 29, 2013 I shoot with The 5D2 and 5D3 + Leica M8, M9, M10 I agree with all your points below. Leica is way behind the curve on just basic functions that are standard on far cheaper cameras. I has disappointed to see that the 240 still had the lame bottom plate. Its such a PITA to use...it was a novelty on the M8, which clearly lost its appeal on the M9. When it showed up on the M10 I couldnt believe it was still here. Its a shame we are expected to accept these oddities just because its still an M camera at heart. I think Leica needs to up the game now. The 240 is clearly a step in the right direction, but its also two steps back. .................... snipped digitalfx, I accept that you don't like the bottom plate arrangement, but seriously, how many times in a shoot do you really need to access it? I would be inclined to venture that if you are constantly changing batteries and SD cards that you are really blazing away with the cam. Entirely possible I grant you. In my pre-digital days I typically shot 10-15 rolls of 36 exp film in 2-3 hrs for dress rehearsal shoots, in the dark! That involved juggling two rolls of film, the base plate and the camera body, all while the action on stage progressed and I could not afford to miss shots. I have developed an automatic technique for handling that base plate. So yes, I am used to it and it does come easily with practice. The alternative would perhaps be one of those flimsy 'flap doors' I see on Japanese cams. I do wonder about their durability. Now that I am shooting M9-P, I do enjoy getting right through a performance without once having to change battery or SD cards. Typically I go home with in excess of 1000 file in current scenarios. Regarding the M240's colour, the little I have seen it would present no real problem for me, but I would really fancy that (more) silent shutter and occasionally the larger buffer. Still holding my breath for the moment. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
zlatkob Posted April 29, 2013 Share #384 Posted April 29, 2013 The alternative would perhaps be one of those flimsy 'flap doors' I see on Japanese cams. I do wonder about their durability. On cameras like the Canon 1D series those doors have been well built and durable from 2001 to the present. Nothing flimsy about them. It's the cheaper cameras that have flimsy doors. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted April 29, 2013 Share #385 Posted April 29, 2013 Flimsy or not (Zlatkob is right that quality varies), I find opening one lid for a card, another one on the other side for a battery, rubber plugs for interfaces (like the silly USB thing on M8 and M9) etc. dotted all over the camera cumbersome and unergonomic design. Each to his own. Reasons like this make some people prefer one brand, other people another. For me the single bottom plate works just fine. If I would dislike this concept enough to make it a deal breaker, I would simply buy something else. Demanding that it be changed because of my personal preference would be rather shortsighted. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
k-hawinkler Posted April 30, 2013 Share #386 Posted April 30, 2013 I never had a problem with a "flimsy" flap door either on any of my cameras, cheap or expensive! "flimsy" flap door: another example of opinion disguised as fact? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
k-hawinkler Posted April 30, 2013 Share #387 Posted April 30, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) Flimsy or not, I find opening one lid for a card, another one on the other side for a battery, rubber plugs for interfaces (like the silly USB thing on M8 and M9) etc. dotted all over the camera cumbersome and unergonomic design. Each to his own. Reasons like this make some people prefer one brand, other people another. For me the single bottom plate works just fine. If I would dislike this concept enough to make it a deal breaker, I would simply buy something else. Demanding that it be changed because of my personal preference would be rather shortsighted. Well, on a NEX one little flap door gives access to battery and memory card! Couldn't be any simpler, really! Water proofing may speak against that solution though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted April 30, 2013 Share #388 Posted April 30, 2013 Yes, so it does on quite a few compacts, including the newer Digiluxes and X-series. Usually access is rather cramped because of that Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
digitalfx Posted April 30, 2013 Share #389 Posted April 30, 2013 digitalfx, I accept that you don't like the bottom plate arrangement, but seriously, how many times in a shoot do you really need to access it? I would be inclined to venture that if you are constantly changing batteries and SD cards that you are really blazing away with the cam. Entirely possible I grant you. In my pre-digital days I typically shot 10-15 rolls of 36 exp film in 2-3 hrs for dress rehearsal shoots, in the dark! That involved juggling two rolls of film, the base plate and the camera body, all while the action on stage progressed and I could not afford to miss shots. I have developed an automatic technique for handling that base plate. So yes, I am used to it and it does come easily with practice. The alternative would perhaps be one of those flimsy 'flap doors' I see on Japanese cams. I do wonder about their durability. Now that I am shooting M9-P, I do enjoy getting right through a performance without once having to change battery or SD cards. Typically I go home with in excess of 1000 file in current scenarios. Regarding the M240's colour, the little I have seen it would present no real problem for me, but I would really fancy that (more) silent shutter and occasionally the larger buffer. Still holding my breath for the moment. I have three 5D's and they are heavily abused in a production environment and never once had an issue with the doors. The M bottom plate has its basis in a 50+ year old design, are you telling me that in 2013 there isnt a better way to do it? My M is more of a personal camera that I use for artistic shooting rather than professional, so my dissatisfaction with the bottom plate isnt because I fill up the card frequently, but more about my style of shooting and post processing. I am frequently downloading the card throughout the day and post processing my images. This is the way I work, and I'm not going to change this. The bottom plate is inconvenient, and I find it hard to believe that Leica cant improve this. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted April 30, 2013 Share #390 Posted April 30, 2013 A different way to do it, certainly. A better way? That is a subjective call, I would say. In reality there is little difference between removing the bottom plate and pushing the card and opening a door and pushing the card. The M has a window for WiFi cards in the bottom plate, which is likely even more convenient for your way of working, I should think. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
digitalfx Posted April 30, 2013 Share #391 Posted April 30, 2013 In reality there is little difference between removing the bottom plate and pushing the card and opening a door and pushing the card. Now I think your just messing with me. Seriously one requires two hands, leaving you standing there wondering what to do with the bottom plate. I usually put it back on the camera, then go thru the process again when I put the card back in after processing. The other method is a one handed operation that takes seconds. IMO the current bottom plate is a stupid design that should have been improved 5 years ago. The M has a window for WiFi cards in the bottom plate, which is likely even more convenient for your way of working, I should think. Are you saying this window can be removed? If so this solves everything. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdlaing Posted April 30, 2013 Share #392 Posted April 30, 2013 My M9-P has two little hinged doors on the bottom plate. One for battery and one for SD card. I don't remove the bottom plate to get at either. Takes seconds ..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdriceman Posted April 30, 2013 Share #393 Posted April 30, 2013 Really? This thread had degenerated into a debate about battery and memory doors? Sigh.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
digitalfx Posted April 30, 2013 Share #394 Posted April 30, 2013 a bunch of comedians here Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
erl Posted April 30, 2013 Share #395 Posted April 30, 2013 I never had a problem with a "flimsy" flap door either on any of my cameras, cheap or expensive! "flimsy" flap door: another example of opinion disguised as fact? Simply put, no! Copied for you convenience, to re-read: The alternative would perhaps be one of those flimsy 'flap doors' I see on Japanese cams. Flapdoors clearly in inverted commas, because I don't know the techy name. Perhaps I should have inserted the word 'some.' I acknowledged my ignorance of their true condition by stating, "I do wonder about their durability Further to your experience, mine is not as good. I have had to have said doors repaired/replaced, but my comment was deliberately open or general, not specific at your chosen brand which I am sure are fine, because you said so. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
erl Posted April 30, 2013 Share #396 Posted April 30, 2013 a bunch of comedians here And at the centre is ..... ! Seriously digitalfix, clearly you have worked out what works for you and I am glad. It seems not to include M cameras (for work). A wise choice based on your own style. For me and my work, in latter years it has been almost exclusively Leica, both film and digital. There is no reason we be the same or use the same tools. Simply the ones that get our job done. The base plate on Leicas causes me no concern because I have worked out how to fit them into my workflow. I don't expect everyone else to do that. We are individuals. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
erl Posted April 30, 2013 Share #397 Posted April 30, 2013 Really? This thread had degenerated into a debate about battery and memory doors? Sigh.... It has not degenerated. The discussion is on things that concern real users. Don't click on the thread if it bores you. Most threads in my observation lead onto other side issues, within reason. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
digitalfx Posted April 30, 2013 Share #398 Posted April 30, 2013 And at the centre is ..... ! erl, this comment was in response to to jdlaing saying his bottom plate had doors. Im glad the bottom plate works for you though. BTW- just to clarify, Im a film maker not a professional photographer. So I dont use any still camera to shoot thousands of images a day. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdriceman Posted April 30, 2013 Share #399 Posted April 30, 2013 It has not degenerated. The discussion is on things that concern real users.Don't click on the thread if it bores you. Most threads in my observation lead onto other side issues, within reason. I clicked on the thread because it has been quite informative on discussing M Color. As for bottom p,ates and flap doors.... well, I have Canon cameras and it takes me 8 seconds to change the battery or CF card. The flap doors are sturdy and reliable. I have a Nex and it also takes me 8 seconds to change battery or SD card. Its door is also sturdy and reliable. It takes me 12 seconds to change the battery or SD card in my digital M cameras. It's bottom plate is also sturdy and reliable. What's to discuss? On the other hand I am waiting patiently for the opportunity to spend $7,000 on an M240 to replace my wonderful M9, so I am quite interested in learning how people are managing things like white balance and color profiles of this new camera. Perhaps a new thread could be opened: "Leica Technology Still Lags Canikon- M240 Baseplate vs Flap Doors". Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
erl Posted April 30, 2013 Share #400 Posted April 30, 2013 Your patient wait for the M240 I think needs to extend to WB and profile fixes. History indicates they will all come in 'good' time. I hope it may be sooner! I believe the 'fill-in' discussion on 'flap doors' has run its course. That is what happens when the real action is slow anywhere, eg. waiting for colour fixes. I envy you the prospect of the new M. At present I am unable to justify it. Still, I am happy with the M9-P. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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