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M Color

kidigital

By kidigital
in Leica M (Type 240 / 262)

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k-hawinkler

k-hawinkler

Posted
Posted
Could you post Leica's email back to you stating that they are aware of the color problem and that it would not be in the next firmware update? I bet you don't have this.

 

Also, could you please post one of these Asian skin tone DNGs that you can't show to Asians because they are very sensitive to the color of their skin. My friend and Pediatrician was laughing about your post the other day and she would like to see how bad the skin tone is from these pictures you have taken in China. She is from China. I shot a picture of her, Tan, the other day and she saw it on the back of the M LCD and actually liked it. :)

 

Personally, I think you are full of sh#t, again.

 

 

Dear Rick,

 

I consider your way of expressing yourself inappropriate and offensive.

IMHO you owe Stephen an apology.

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pico

pico

Posted
Posted

I have spent no more than a few seconds using a PS action on the images posted here and the skin color, and the other tonalities are fixed. Maybe some people aren't really ready for digital yet.

 

I don't care if a person shoots a thousand pics a day. There will be only a few keepers. Consider the default output as proof, then action against the keepers.

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Rick

Rick

Posted
Posted
What did I do to deserve this?

 

Look, you have an M240 and think it's perfect. Great.

 

For me this is all about time needed in post. The camera has AutoWB issues, and I shoot in RAW with AutoWB so I can adjust in post. I don't have time to shoot a WB card for every scene.

 

I don't have the Leica response in front of me but to paraphrase (again) Leica is aware of the AutoWB problems and are working on a solution, although the next firmware upgrade will be bug fixes. I will post the exact text after the shoot today.

 

I realize that posting images of skin tones is an invitation into subjectivity, and this has already been done with lots of examples next to much more accurate renderings from Fuji, Sony and iPhones on the Facebook M240 group.

 

Can the WB and colour problems be fixed? Sure. Does it take longer than it should? IMHO, yes.

 

Agh, no I never said the color was perfect. Remember, I was the one that thought Jono's dog looked too warm.

 

Nobody said you need to shoot a WB card- But, it does help to shoot one with a new camera to figure out what is what. I could not care less if you say you don't have time to do this. That is your problem. But, it only takes me about 10 seconds in post to change Temp/Tint and apply it with sync in LR. Why is it taking you so long? It is two sliders that fix WB. And, why sell your camera over WB?

 

Your response from Leica: You said that they told you they had color problems. Now, you are saying that they said it is "AutoWB problems." Which is it? We all have figured out that the AWB is off. But, why sell your camera for this?

 

You say it is about not having enough time to fix this stuff in post. Really? Are you that slammed taking travel photos?

 

Lastly, skin tones... you stated above in your post, I am quoting, that, "much more accurate renderings from iPhones on the Facebook" have been done. Really? You want us to believe that an iPhone can make much better skin tones from Asians than my M?

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kidigital

kidigital

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a

Maybe some people aren't really ready for digital yet.

 

Pico, why the smack talk? I'm not certain if the comment was directed at me or not but why the hostility?

 

It seems that a lot of comments/arguments on LUF lately seem to be directed back at the personal credibility of the posters. If there is something wrong with the camera as it stands, there seems to be a tendency to cast blame on the shooter.

 

Again, what I've said from the beginning of the thread is that the camera will pose problems for users who are looking for more accurate white balance and color out of the box. It might be an easy fix for you and is something you're ok with until a firmware update comes along. Cool.

 

But, my opinion is that the there are a few things that need work. For $7k in the US and up to $9k in Asia, I believe that it is a valid opinion.

 

I don't recall a single message in this thread that implies that the people who are keeping their cameras and want to make a few adjustments to color and /or white balance are rubes, fools, bad shooters, or tolls.

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macjonny1

macjonny1

Posted
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Pico' date=' why the smack talk? I'm not certain if the comment was directed at me or not but why the hostility?

 

It seems that a lot of comments/arguments on LUF lately seem to be directed back at the personal credibility of the posters. If there is something wrong with the camera as it stands, there seems to be a tendency to cast blame on the shooter.

 

Again, what I've said from the beginning of the thread is that the camera will pose problems for users who are looking for more accurate white balance and color out of the box. It might be an easy fix for you and is something you're ok with until a firmware update comes along. Cool.

 

But, my opinion is that the there are a few things that need work. For $7k in the US and up to $9k in Asia, I believe that it is a valid opinion.

 

I don't recall a single message in this thread that implies that the people who are keeping their cameras and want to make a few adjustments to color and /or white balance rubes, fools, bad shooters, or tolls.[/quote']

 

I think it's valid too, and I'm sure it will

Work out. I'd rather buy one when all the issues are worked out as I don't have time to fix all my shots in post

 

For those that do, it looks like a fabulous camera. I'm sure if you are a pro you are doing this already so no big deal.

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pico

pico

Posted
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I don't recall a single message in this thread that implies that the people who are keeping their cameras and want to make a few adjustments to color and /or white balance are rubes, fools, bad shooters, or tolls.

 

I don't either. In a moment like this it is important to simply stop. A misunderstanding has occurred.

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jonoslack

jonoslack

Posted
Posted

Hi there

This seems like a punch up over an agreement.

What do we agree about?

 

The AWB Is too Warm

That you can fix it in Post Processing

 

What is the complaint?

 

Skin tones are too warm when shooting AWB

 

Where is the disagreement?

 

I would personally add that the WB presets are too warm too.

 

This implies that there isn't an underlying problem with the colour. WB settings can be modified in firmware.

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k-hawinkler

k-hawinkler

Posted
Posted
Thanks for posting this. For me could you just be specific what you did when you said you "adjusted the Basic parameters in CS6". It would be most helpful to me. Thanks.

 

 

You are welcome. Sure no problem. Here we go. The following panels are from ACR 7.4.

 

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

 

Basic Panel

 

Detail Panel

 

Camera Calibration Panel due to 01af for M9. Many thanks.

 

I then opened the Object in CS6, flattened the image, chose 8 Bits/Channel, sRGB and saved for Web.

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lct

lct

Posted
Posted
Orange peoples of the world unite! Rick and LCT don't believe that you exist....

Oh! Kurt you just got mere WB problems here. Is is really the first time it happened to you? A couple of clicks in iCorrect and you're done if you don't like tweaking DNG files in PP.

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k-hawinkler

k-hawinkler

Posted
Posted
Hi there

This seems like a punch up over an agreement.

What do we agree about?

 

The AWB Is too Warm

That you can fix it in Post Processing

 

What is the complaint?

 

Skin tones are too warm when shooting AWB

 

Where is the disagreement?

 

I would personally add that the WB presets are too warm too.

 

This implies that there isn't an underlying problem with the colour. WB settings can be modified in firmware.

 

 

Hi Jono,

 

Many thanks for being willing to discuss how we can make progress in understanding some of the issues.

I am still waiting for my M and have to depend on others for providing DNG and JPG images.

 

Could we please kindly ask Stephen and Kurt to make the JPG images they posted also available in DNG?

As they have shot those images they are in the best position to work on just one image each to get best skin colors and compare with the corresponding JPG image.

 

Of course, I understand the argument that a professional photographer would like to spend more time on taking photos and less on post-processing.

 

But I wonder whether collectively we cannot come up with a set of Camera Calibration Parameters that apply to many different scenarios.

Once that has been successfully accomplished or led to a failure, then we should be hopefully in a better position to address some of the seemingly controversial questions under discussion.

 

Thanks again.

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andybarton

andybarton

Posted
Posted
Dear Rick,

 

I consider your way of expressing yourself inappropriate and offensive.

IMHO you owe Stephen an apology.

 

Agreed

 

If Stephen and others hadn't responded, Rick's thread would have been moderated.

 

I know that we are all grown-ups, but this kind of thing really is unnecessary.

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lct

lct

Posted
Posted
...For me this is all about time needed in post. The camera has AutoWB issues, and I shoot in RAW with AutoWB so I can adjust in post. I don't have time to shoot a WB card for every scene...

Took me one minute and one single click in iCorrect to get the second pic below. Would be better with the DNG file of course but we can hardly speak of a skin tone issue.

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

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macjonny1

macjonny1

Posted
Posted
Took me one minute and one single click in iCorrect to get the second pic below. Would be better with the DNG file of course but we can hardly speak of a skin tone issue.

 

I think he's not wanting to one-click all his photos and hoping that eventually Leica will make it so he doesn't have to. And until then, he's satisfied not using it. Even if it means waiting a year. Nothing wrong with that....good news for others who don't mind!

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k-hawinkler

k-hawinkler

Posted
Posted
Took me one minute and one single click in iCorrect to get the second pic below. Would be better with the DNG file of course but we can hardly speak of a skin tone issue.

 

 

I would like to know how accurate Stephen thinks this adjustment is. :cool:

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jaapv

jaapv

Posted
Posted
Took me one minute and one single click in iCorrect to get the second pic below. Would be better with the DNG file of course but we can hardly speak of a skin tone issue.
It still looks a bit orange in the blotches on the face to me, but then there appears to be warm light coming in from the left.
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lct

lct

Posted
Posted

I'm sure a lot of photogs can do better in one minute or less but Kurt's and Stephen's pics above helped me to be convinced that the skin tone problem they were complaining about is -for me- a total non-issue.

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