lct Posted April 23, 2013 Share #141 Posted April 23, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) The first raw files i've developed had overcooked reds out of the M240 but i can't seem to retrieve this problem with the current firmware. Perhaps i'm missing something though as i've not received my M240 yet. Would some of you be kind enough to upload a raw file through YouSendit or same so that we can check the actual problem on skin tones if any? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted April 23, 2013 Posted April 23, 2013 Hi lct, Take a look here M Color. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
rolleiflex2 Posted April 23, 2013 Share #142 Posted April 23, 2013 Hi everybody, I'm sure that maybe you already post them but i can't find, is it possible to post two DNG files of a 24 patch Colorchecker, shooted in same condition to make a short analysis of the color rendition beetween M9 vs M240. Diglloyed post this comparaison but with developped files but i think that the DNG files could be more useful to check with different software and also to measure the Lab values for objective analysis. regards. Olivier Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony H Posted April 23, 2013 Share #143 Posted April 23, 2013 I find it astounding that we are still talking about Leica colour with the third generation of Leica digital cameras. I own and still use a Canon Eos 1D/S Mk2 which I bought new in 2006, fundamentally it produces perfect colour in any lighting situation even with Leica lenses on it. The M8 was unusable in mixed lighting and hazy sunlight. The M9 does not like flash. It is far too easy to get a Magenta/green cross curve. Here we are now discussing Leica's inability to produce a camera costing twice that of its competitors that can reproduce accurate colours. We must be dumb. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
erl Posted April 23, 2013 Share #144 Posted April 23, 2013 Yes! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjh Posted April 23, 2013 Share #145 Posted April 23, 2013 Here we are now discussing Leica's inability to produce a camera costing twice that of its competitors that can reproduce accurate colours. No, we are not. We are discussing how the M fares if measured against the M9 which is regarded by many as something like the gold standard for colour rendition. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
01af Posted April 23, 2013 Share #146 Posted April 23, 2013 ... the M9 which is regarded by many as something like the gold standard for colour rendition. Not by those with intact colour vision. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulsydaus Posted April 23, 2013 Share #147 Posted April 23, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) It's quite simple really. You just hold down the "focus button" on the front and and spin the setting dial until you get the value you need. You can also activate it by diving into the menus but that takes a little bit longer. It works very well once you get the hang of it... Good to know. What about ISO? Am I the only guy who thinks this could use a dedicated dial? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
erl Posted April 23, 2013 Share #148 Posted April 23, 2013 Possibly. How did you get on using film, when you had to finish 36 shots before loading a different ISO film? Granted, the ability to change quite frequently is a real bonus, but surely not very many of us change ISO for each shot. Just assess the immediate scenario, set ISO and shoot, more or less. A dedicated wheel is more like adding a 'bell' or 'whistle'. Already I accept you will have a different view. That's fine. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Clennan Posted April 23, 2013 Share #149 Posted April 23, 2013 Good to know. What about ISO? Am I the only guy who thinks this could use a dedicated dial? ISO is also easily accessible by holding down the ISO button (to the left of the LCD) and spinning the setting dial until you reach the proper ISO. You can also choose auto ISO this way as well. Very easy... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MP3 Posted April 24, 2013 Share #150 Posted April 24, 2013 Remember the first M9 pics folks. LCT, Excellent Point with a picture !! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulsydaus Posted April 24, 2013 Share #151 Posted April 24, 2013 Possibly. How did you get on using film, when you had to finish 36 shots before loading a different ISO film? Well obviously I couldn't, but if I could I would be changing ISO very regularly instead of having to under-expose and push later. I don't like the idea of menu's on a camera full stop. That's probably where I'm coming from. I wish it was so, that you could use a digital camera without needing access the menu's *at all*. If there was a digital MP, I'd probably take that. I'd much prefer a dedicated ISO wheel to say a movie mode or EVF. Given one is a critical choice in the picture making process, and the other is a poorly implemented gimmick, which are the real bells and whistle's? Happy to be a lone ranger on this as obviously I'm in the minority... Do you happen to know how the Auto ISO function works? Does it stay at base, only to increase when speed falls below a minimum value, by as much is necessary to increase to above the minimum speed? If so, then that sounds pretty reasonable... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
erl Posted April 24, 2013 Share #152 Posted April 24, 2013 Well obviously I couldn't, but if I could I would be changing ISO very regularly instead of having to under-expose and push later.I don't like the idea of menu's on a camera full stop. That's probably where I'm coming from. I wish it was so, that you could use a digital camera without needing access the menu's *at all*. If there was a digital MP, I'd probably take that. I'd much prefer a dedicated ISO wheel to say a movie mode or EVF. Given one is a critical choice in the picture making process, and the other is a poorly implemented gimmick, which are the real bells and whistle's? Happy to be a lone ranger on this as obviously I'm in the minority... Do you happen to know how the Auto ISO function works? Does it stay at base, only to increase when speed falls below a minimum value, by as much is necessary to increase to above the minimum speed? If so, then that sounds pretty reasonable... Actually, I am in agreement with you about menus per se, but the M9 technique is pretty damn good IMO. Don't know about the M. Auto ISO on the M9 is a bit like 'A' on the shutter speed. Set your aperture, select your shutter speed and Auto ISO varies to suit what the lens sees. In other words, you have three inter dependent variables. By locking two you allow the third to balance your exposure, obviously within limits. Personally I don't like that as I like to keep my ISO constant for a series knowing the noise level, if any, will be matched across a series. In fact I don't like 'auto' anything these days. I'm a bit anal about control. OTOH, there are times when 'Auto' is definitely the better choice wrt to getting anything rather than nothing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulsydaus Posted April 24, 2013 Share #153 Posted April 24, 2013 OTOH, there are times when 'Auto' is definitely the better choice wrt to getting anything rather than nothing. Thanks for the info. I guess I'll learn more when my M arrives... I've never used a digital M before. I have too many bad memories/nightmares about some early DSLR menu experiences, so I've been using film for the past few years. That's where I'm coming from. I totally agree about menu's and auto settings. I prefer the mechanical controls. I concede it's hard to satisfy everyone with a one camera (flagship digital M) strategy I suppose. I think Leica should release a dedicated video camera for those who want to use M lenses for that... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted April 24, 2013 Share #154 Posted April 24, 2013 Not by those with intact colour vision. Unfortunately you're right...But then, I know of no camera that is perfect. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjh Posted April 24, 2013 Share #155 Posted April 24, 2013 I don't like the idea of menu's on a camera full stop. That's probably where I'm coming from. I wish it was so, that you could use a digital camera without needing access the menu's *at all*. There is a place for menus … You could have a dedicated dial for every setting, but given how many settings there are the camera would be all dials then, and near impossible to operate. So a camera’s designer needs to set priorities: The settings changed most frequently get assigned to dedicated dials, those used slightly less often are changed using non-dedicated dials or buttons, i.e. in conjunction with some other buttons. Then there is the menu for the settings changed rarely, but usually there are actually two menus, with menu items assigned to one or the other according to the frequency they are accessed. So all in all there are four classes of settings. ISO has only made it to class 2 (non-dedicated dials), as is the norm for this type of camera – it is very rare to have a dedicated ISO dial. To me at least this seems reasonable. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwbell Posted April 24, 2013 Share #156 Posted April 24, 2013 I think it's becoming more and more unreasonable, actually. With "other" camera's ISO performance being so frikkin' amazing, I'm starting to set Aperture for required DoF (artistic), shutter speed to stop subject movement (technical/artisitc, but as Kristian Dowling correctly points out it's higher than most people like to think) leaving ISO the only thing that I can and want to vary for 'correct' exposure. Up to 3200 on the X100s, the 5DII and III is a no brainer and I find it opens up a much improved style of shooting. As ISO which is "noise free" at all intermediate ISO's is neither an artistic/creative decision, whereas shutter and aperture are. It has become just a facilitating variable that needs to be resolved to match the other two. So, for me, an external ISO dial on all the cameras I mention above and the M's would be a very welcome addition indeed. Although it becomes less necessary when high ISO performance is some way behind the pack, I agree. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeffry Abt Posted April 24, 2013 Share #157 Posted April 24, 2013 I think Leica should release a dedicated video camera for those who want to use M lenses for that... Wow? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Clennan Posted April 24, 2013 Share #158 Posted April 24, 2013 So, for me, an external ISO dial on all the cameras I mention above and the M's would be a very welcome addition indeed. Although it becomes less necessary when high ISO performance is some way behind the pack, I agree. The M240 does not have a dedicated ISO "dial" but it does have an ISO button to the left of the LCD. As I mentioned, just press it and spin the selection wheel to the proper ISO. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwbell Posted April 24, 2013 Share #159 Posted April 24, 2013 The M240 does not have a dedicated ISO "dial" but it does have an ISO button to the left of the LCD. As I mentioned, just press it and spin the selection wheel to the proper ISO. I still want a dial! I wouldn't be happy with Shutter speed or aperture in a soft menu either. :-) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdriceman Posted April 24, 2013 Share #160 Posted April 24, 2013 I think it's becoming more and more unreasonable, actually. With "other" camera's ISO performance being so frikkin' amazing, I'm starting to set Aperture for required DoF (artistic), shutter speed to stop subject movement (technical/artisitc, but as Kristian Dowling correctly points out it's higher than most people like to think) leaving ISO the only thing that I can and want to vary for 'correct' exposure. Up to 3200 on the X100s, the 5DII and III is a no brainer and I find it opens up a much improved style of shooting. As ISO which is "noise free" at all intermediate ISO's is neither an artistic/creative decision, whereas shutter and aperture are. It has become just a facilitating variable that needs to be resolved to match the other two. So, for me, an external ISO dial on all the cameras I mention above and the M's would be a very welcome addition indeed. Although it becomes less necessary when high ISO performance is some way behind the pack, I agree. I use this approach frequently, but usually with auto ISO. I don't think I have a camera with a separate ISO dial though. The Canon has a small button near the shutter which you press and then roll the thumb wheel. My Sony Nex requires you to push the right side of the rear wheel, then rotate that rear wheel and the M Mono has, of course, the ISO button and the rear wheel. So, I don't think the Leica approach is that unusual. I do wish, however, I could see ISO through the viewfinder as I change it (which is the case with the canon and sony) instead of having to hold the camera/LCD out in front as I change ISO. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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