The UV/IR filter manual

[hankg]

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I wouldn't get to excited about Leica only guaranteeing Leica filters. That is a bit of legalize that every manufacturer must use. In everyday use there is probably no difference between using B+W and Leica filters and on 50 and longer not much for Heliopans either. No corpoarate lawyer worth his pay would allow Leica or any other company to put in writing that they will guarantee that their products will work with 3rd party products over which they have no control.

 

Menu selectable lens coding is a different issue and I hope Leica puts the customer first and enables it in the near future. They have been very responsive and proactive thus far and I hope they are listening on this point.

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[hammam]

Funny you mention Nikon, Howard, because I publicly expressed my anger when Nikon encrypted the WB in the D2X's Raw files (Nef) so that only their converter (Nikon Capture) could read the «As shot» WB. And the public outrage has been such that Nikon eventually sent developer kits to third party developers of converter programs so that their programs could read the native WB from then on.

 

I think that, from time to time, it can be useful to vent one's frustration publicly in the hope that the company will listen and change their course. I think this very forum, for instance, with the help of people like Guy, will lead Leica towards a better M8. Aren't we all still some sort of beta testers for the M8?

 

We already can see from some posts that there is no difference in results between the Leica filters and the B+W 486 filters, with firmware 1.092. As was expected, since they are probably made to the exact same specs. So much for the need to use Leica filters «exclusively.» At least for now.

 

Guy, thanks for the «news» It's just that I expect the best from the best. And I hate to see Leica use what looks like dubious communication tactics, worthy only of some other mass market brand. And, again, I had hoped that the coding would be replaced by menu, and I am bitterly disappointed that Leica keeps recommending coded lenses even whith firmware past 1.10.

[arthury]

I still am not seeing cyan corner ... do I need to be in really bright situations to see it?

 

http://www.leica-camera-user.com/architecture/20538-varsity-library.html

[canlogic]

Olivier there isn't a manufacturer in the world that doesn't tell you that you need to use thier accessories. If you use an aftermarket batterie in almost any camera your warranty is void. Try calling Epson when your heads clog and you tell them you are useing aftermarket ink. What they are saying is that if you are useing their filters they know the firmware will work properly.

[Guest guy_mancuso]

We have to remember coding is the most efficient way to work and maybe the reason leica's words sound a little strong too. Let's face it going in and changing menu options is really a time wasting situation and you could miss a shot setting up a lens . For a wedding or event guy it could be death in a way when your working fast and switching lenses. Say you go from a 35mm to a 21mm and your set on 35 well your not going to get the proper cyan removal. Personally I would look at the menu option as a lens like the Zeiss 15mm that you can't code because of a screw in the mount. Even if you don't buy a coded lens or have a Leica lens coded than find a way if it can be done to code it, in the long run it is easier and more effecient for you the user. The CV lenses with the screw on adapters can easily be drilled and coded . Robert just did a 15mm setting for me, now I may buy a 12mm CV lens and use it there. Than there are milling shops where you may want to bring a Zeiss lens in and have them drill out the code marks than paint that in. Just some ways to skin a cat here. Now i would expect at some point the menu option will be there, but it maybe with this firmware or after and that part i honestly don't know. Obviously I am testing some of this but a final version can be completely different and also there are other beta testers out there as well that report and we are really just looking for issues more than anything else the real work is being down in Germany of making it better

[Guest guy_mancuso]

Arthur it is there but hidden a little. Here is one with everything off on the WATE at 18mm . As you can see it is obviously there. obviously i can't show the one with it on and I had to strip the EXIF also. But you can see it is there for sure

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[robsteve]

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I still am not seeing cyan corner ... do I need to be in really bright situations to see it?

 

http://www.leica-camera-user.com/architecture/20538-varsity-library.html

 

Try shooting a white wall with a lens wider than 50mm and you will see the cyan corners when a UV/IR filter is fitted.

[Jfelder2@nyc.rr.com]

I certainly don't mind how the whole IR filter thing shook down -- I've been having a fun time shooting some IR stuff with my M8 (and I have always kept a protective filter on my lenses anyway -- a shattered UV filter saved a very expensive zoom for me once.).

 

BUT not being able to pick the lens in the menu for cyan correction as an option is silly. Leica made a POINT of designing the M8 so you could use it with old lenses. Now you have to send your lenses in to get them retrofitted, with a code that's just a primitive optical read anyway.

 

It would take NO cost and LITTLE effort to put an option in the menu allowing you to specify an old lens for cyan correction -- that would show real respect towards people who want to use the old Leica lenses.

 

I understand Guy's point of wanting to swap out lenses super-quick at a wedding, but most of us aren't swapping out lenses at a wedding -- I'd guess 75% of Leica users use one lens for most of their needs. I know a Geographic photographer I spoke with, when he was stilling using a Leica, always kept one lens on it, and also carried an SLR (with a wide-to-85 or so zoom on it) for when he needed a quick other-lens shot.

 

I don't understand Leica making a stand against the menu selection as an option in addition to the code read, unless they either don't know people want the option or they somehow feel they need to nickle and dime the coding fee out of their loyal user base.

 

http://www.snapshotartifact.org/

[Guest guy_mancuso]

There not making a stand against it , they just have not done it . Only becuase they have been busy fixing it which obviously is very time consuming but they know very well of this request. Reason i said let's be a little patent too we just don't know what 1.10 will bring in the final version but even if it is not, it's on the radar

[hammam]

We have to remember coding is the most efficient way to work and maybe the reason leica's words sound a little strong too. Let's face it going in and changing menu options is really a time wasting situation and you could miss a shot setting up a lens . For a wedding or event guy it could be death in a way when your working fast and switching lenses. Say you go from a 35mm to a 21mm and your set on 35 well your not going to get the proper cyan removal. Personally I would look at the menu option as a lens like the Zeiss 15mm that you can't code because of a screw in the mount. Even if you don't buy a coded lens or have a Leica lens coded than find a way if it can be done to code it, in the long run it is easier and more effecient for you the user. The CV lenses with the screw on adapters can easily be drilled and coded . Robert just did a 15mm setting for me, now I may buy a 12mm CV lens and use it there. Than there are milling shops where you may want to bring a Zeiss lens in and have them drill out the code marks than paint that in. Just some ways to skin a cat here. Now i would expect at some point the menu option will be there, but it maybe with this firmware or after and that part i honestly don't know. Obviously I am testing some of this but a final version can be completely different and also there are other beta testers out there as well that report and we are really just looking for issues more than anything else the real work is being down in Germany of making it better

 

Guy, once you get used to it, I don't think you will forget to change the lens data in the menu any more than you will forget to change WB or ISO. Also, what we're talking here is not menu vs coding, it's menu AND coding. Please, remember that we are not all professionals here. We cannot all afford the very expensive Leica glass and write it off. Thank God, we had the competitive C/V and Zeiss alternatives (which may or may not be one of Leica's reasons for the coding), but now it looks like they won't work well in future firmware, though we had hoped for the contrary. And coding them looks like such a hassle that I'm sweating just to think about it.

[hammam]

Olivier there isn't a manufacturer in the world that doesn't tell you that you need to use thier accessories. If you use an aftermarket batterie in almost any camera your warranty is void. Try calling Epson when your heads clog and you tell them you are useing aftermarket ink. What they are saying is that if you are useing their filters they know the firmware will work properly.

 

Tim, my point exactly. This is masss market tactics. I didn't expect that from Leica. And we know, and Leica know, that THEIR IR-cut filter is the same as the less expensive B+W 486. I will gladly stand corrected if Leica eventually sell their filter the same price.

 

We are all stuck with the magenta cast and cyan vignetting problems. I have accepted the fact, and I live with it, because I love the M8. But the least Leica could do now is work towards giving us a chance to at least get the same good results with third party lenses and filters, instead of telling us today that future firmware will be effective only with Leica lenses and Leica filters. Especially if it proves not to be true.

[hankg]

We have to remember coding is the most efficient way to work

No one is suggesting Leica do away with the current system. Just put the choice of how to use the camera in the photographers hands. The M8's auto exposure system works more efficiently then manual and that's why I use it. But some photographers hate it and stick with manual. Leica gives them the choice. Same with ISO selection. Should we protect the user from making a wrong exposure, WB setting or ISO selection? Of course not. It's not a point and shoot, all the automated functions are optional.

 

That said it's to early to be jumping all over Leica as they have not said they would never do it. I would not assume any nefarious motives to Leica for not having the option as it was a non-issue when the camera was released. You really did not need 6-bit coding then. It's the cyan drift that has made it an issue and Leica was already working through a long list of firm ware priorities before this popped up.

 

However it should be clear to them how the majority of M8 users feel about this.

[Joi]

Are the cyan corners no visible on a 50mm lens? I just got the heliopan filters and am wondering if I should have the camera set to UV/IR or not. Is there another thread about third party filters and the new firmware?

[yoMammabot]

I have not seen cyan in my Noct yet.

[bradhusick]

B+W 486 UV/IR filters do not work on the 16-18-21 WATE with firmware 1.102. See the thread "WATE filtered" for examples.

 

-Brad

[elansprint72]

To put everyone's fears to rest: I am a Leica collector in a big way and have many lenses that aren't on Leica's list of codables. After exchanging 2 defective bodies I finally have (all fingers crossed) a working M8 I've been using for the past three weeks.

 

I have been using it exclusively with un-coded lenses and Heliopan filters except for one BW486 in one size, and I currently have firmware version 1.092 and shoot DNG, using C1-PRO and Photoshop CS2. Thursday I just received my 2 free Leica filters. Here's the deal:

 

1. Cyan corner drift is correctable with the free Panotools plug-in. It took me about 30 seconds to find the setting that works for each lens, and I've written an action for each. The only PITA is trying to identify and sort shots according to the lens used. In time I might hand-code my wide lenses with codes from un-used lenses in the 50mm and up range. That way I will be able to leave lens detection ON and get no cyan correction but just EXIF identification of each lens (even though not the correct info) that I can use only for sorting and batching. I somehow doubt that coding an un-codable with a substitute from the coded lens list will prove to be entirely effective with the built-in cyan correction, and unless it's entirely effective it's rather useless since I'll need to use Panotools anyway.

 

2. I find there is a very small difference between the colour balance with the Heliopan vs Leica IR filter but none with the BW, but it's an overall difference not specifially limited to the items affected by IR. Therefore I'm using a profile adjusted for the majority of my filters which are Heliopans, and with the BW or Leica filters it's a tiny tweak and only in some instances.

 

So my take is that neither Leica filters nor lens coding are in any way mandatory, but they are convenience options. They will be especially convenient for those shooting JPEG and/or uncomfortable with post-processing. Otherwise using Heliopan filters and uncoded lenses is less automated but the results obtainable in post-processing --easily and quickly--are identical.

Doc,

Please could you point me towards any of your photos on this forum?