Leica M strap lugs unscrewing (merged)

[Jeff S]

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I'm sure this isn't what Leica had in mind for pics of an upcoming M-P (for added protection).

 

Bugs were inevitable, but this is just embarrassing; the blurry line between early adopters and beta testers continues with every new digital M. I build my delayed testing and purchasing strategy around it, but feel sorry for others, even though Leica always eventually makes things right.

 

Jeff

[k-hawinkler]

It seems to me Chris' (dwbell's suggestion) and Wilson's solution is a great idea in general! :-)

[marknorton]

Yes, you can always rely on the LUF to come up with the goods - great suggestions from Chris and Wilson. Just hope you don't have a double failure of the lugs and the tripod mount coming loose simultaneously...

[marknorton]

I'm sure this isn't what Leica had in mind for pics of an upcoming M-P (for added protection).

 

Bugs were inevitable, but this is just embarrassing; the blurry line between early adopters and beta testers continues with every new digital M. I build my delayed testing and purchasing strategy around it, but feel sorry for others, even though Leica always eventually makes things right.

 

Jeff

 

Trouble is, this isn't something you'd expect to see from the beta testers - those cameras were likely hand-built in Solms where this appears to be a problem in Portugal.

[k-hawinkler]

Yes, you can always rely on the LUF to come up with the goods - great suggestions from Chris and Wilson. Just hope you don't have a double failure of the lugs and the tripod mount coming loose simultaneously...

 

 

To protect against that tie a knot in the middle.

[johnbuckley]

You can also take it to the local Leica Store, if there's 1 in your city.

 

I don't think this is right, at least not in the US. There is a Leica Store in DC, where I live, but I was instructed to contact New Jersey.

[marknorton]

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I don't know if they were slowly coming loose, or just catastrophically instantly failed. One side fell off, and the other was very loose.

 

That's why I doubt this is about the absence of Loctite on the screws because you would surely notice a lug coming loose as a result of the screws becoming unscrewed.

 

I think instread the problem is the production station where the lugs were installed was provisioned with a box of screws which were smaller than they should have been, say 0.9mm instead of 1.0mm. You can get a superficially tight fitting but one where the tension on the lug could pull the screws out of it.

 

So, if you think of 1000 cameras, say, and €500 per camera to fix, that's €0.5m for a mistakenly-read box of screws. Such are the joys of manufacturing.

 

(All my conjecture, of course).

 

Edit: To give Leica their due, Salander posted this on 2 April. By 5 April, Leica had found the cause of the problem and fixed it. Whether they got to hear of it through here or via Leica NJ, who knows, but certainly it's a vote of thanks to Salander for reporting the issue.

[Jeff S]

Trouble is, this isn't something you'd expect to see from the beta testers - those cameras were likely hand-built in Solms where this appears to be a problem in Portugal.

 

I guess I'm lumping together the other issues under forum discussion, especially in the thread on "M color". My general point is that problems were to be expected, since every new digital M release has them, and the fact that this new M has lots of new components only increased the odds. The picture Chris posted just seemed the perfect (or dreadful) example of why not to be an early M adopter. S**t happens; it just happens more with new M releases. I waited for the M8.2, and I'll probably wait for the M 260, or whatever it's strangely called.

 

Jeff

[chris_tribble]

I guess I'm lumping together the other issues under forum discussion, especially in the thread on "M color". My general point is that problems were to be expected, since every new digital M release has them, and the fact that this new M has lots of new components only increased the odds. The picture Chris posted just seemed the perfect (or dreadful) example of why not to be an early M adopter. S**t happens; it just happens more with new M releases. I waited for the M8.2, and I'll probably wait for the M 260, or whatever it's strangely called.

 

Jeff

 

But the pleasure of early adoption is that I've been able to start getting images I prefer to the M9's (whatever the discussions re colour) a lot earlier than those who come into the game late...

[wattsy]

The picture Chris posted just seemed the perfect (or dreadful) example of why not to be an early M adopter.

 

Agreed. Chris's solution is a classic pragmatic alternative to sending the cameras back until a more convenient time but that photo of Leica's flagship £5100 camera with a piece of nylon cord looped through the strap lugs must be giving the Leica marketing department a few things to think about. Whatever the cause, this lug recall represents a pretty major cock-up even by Leica's standards.

[furcafe]

I am in DC. I dropped my camera off yesterday & they're shipping it to NJ for me (already have a lens up there for service so this will allow them to test the lens on the camera before forwarding to Solms). This was on my own initiative & not via any instructions contained in the email.

 

I don't think this is right, at least not in the US. There is a Leica Store in DC, where I live, but I was instructed to contact New Jersey.

[dwbell]

Edit: To give Leica their due, Salander posted this on 2 April. By 5 April, Leica had found the cause of the problem and fixed it.

 

Disagree. It's not unreasonable to expect The Great Leica, builders of companions for life, investments in your future and blah-dee so on to be able to design and deliver a camera strap lug correctly. Surely they can call on their rich heritage?

 

If it's a problem with the curved micro lenses that are unique to the M9, or the coupling of the optical RF to something else, all things tricky and without peer then yeah, I'll cut them a little but of slack (not much) - but a camera strap lug? Seriously?

 

No free pass here I'm afraid. Pathetic. Shoddy.

[Salander]

This is getting extremely frustrating. My camera was supposed to be back to Leica NJ on the 27th. I called them, and the camera hasn't even been shipped yet from Germany. Now they're saying it could be another week or two. How is this tolerable?!

[giordano]

I think instread the problem is the production station where the lugs were installed was provisioned with a box of screws which were smaller than they should have been, say 0.9mm instead of 1.0mm. You can get a superficially tight fitting but one where the tension on the lug could pull the screws out of it.

 

You had me worried with that "1.0mm" because it didn't feel strong enough. I did some rough sums, and the ultimate strength of am ISO 1mm fine thread HT screw is of the same order of magnitude as the maximum load a strap lug might take (M240, handgrip, EVF, big Telyt, something snatching hard at the strap - and the way it's designed, the worst-case load will be taken by just one of the two screws.) Fortunately Salander's photos at the beginning of this thread suggest that the screws are a good deal bigger: 1.4 or even 1.6mm?

 

I'm not sure about the idea that screws one size too small could have been used in error. All the ISO fine threads from 1mm to 1.8mm have the same pitch (0.2mm) so they'd screw in happily - but surely the improperly engaged threads would have stripped while being tightened. In which case the problem should have been noticed on the first body assembled with these screws.

 

I do hope that Leica will come clean about what happened and how they're ensuring it won't happen again.

[wlaidlaw]

My guess is 1.7mm screws. This is a favourite Leica thread size. They use this size of screws in lenses and camera bodies.

 

Wilson

[marknorton]

I tried to remove the lug screws from "that" M8 and they are in solid, suggesting Loktite is used and missing on the early M240s. Who knows?

[AlanG]

I tried to remove the lug screws from "that" M8 and they are in solid, suggesting Loktite is used and missing on the early M240s. Who knows?

 

Why would they not use Loctite on this? Judging from the OP's photos there isn't any. Maybe they simply ran out of it but they kept going thinking torque alone would hold it for a lot longer than it did.

 

I build quadcopter flying camera platforms and put blue Loctite on every screw.

[wlaidlaw]

Why would they not use Loctite on this? Judging from the OP's photos there isn't any. Maybe they simply ran out of it but they kept going thinking torque alone would hold it for a lot longer than it did.

 

I build quadcopter flying camera platforms and put blue Loctite on every screw.

 

Alan,

 

Since I cannot see the necessity to remove these at any time in the future, I would use the high strength red 270 rather than blue. I note that Leica do use a blue thread locker on some screws on their lenses (sadly not the front assembly screws on the 28 Summicron ASPH, which are notorious for coming undone) but these have to be able to be disassembled for service in contrast to the strap lugs. Given the vital nature of these retaining screws, I wonder if they should be wired like I used to do with all suspension fixings on the various racing cars I built.

 

Unless someone takes a Leica employee out for a good diner and plies him with too much Gewürztraminer, we will never know the full truth of what happened.

 

Wilson

[Guest Holy Moly]

Why would they not use Loctite on this? Judging from the OP's photos there isn't any. Maybe they simply ran out of it but they kept going thinking torque alone would hold it for a lot longer than it did.

 

I build quadcopter flying camera platforms and put blue Loctite on every screw.

 

what kind of material is the black round dot benead the lug? Is it (black) metal or just a flattened area of the 'vulkanit'? When it's so, no Loctite can compensate this washer-behavior...

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[earleygallery]

But this has happened before, on the M9 and X1, so it's not a problem 'unique' to the new M.

 

I wonder why they didn't do a recall before? I can only assume that those were isolated cases and perhaps they've had a sudden flurry of reports of the M failing?