intermediatic Posted November 7, 2013 Share #41 Posted November 7, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) If I want manual (and I do that at times) I set the ISO value myself of course, I won't put it to AUTO-ISO obviously, I can't see where this is misleading. Of course, if I were photographing trees in daylight exclusively I wouldn't see the point either. I work not only in photography and design, so apologies but I do know something about user interface design. The above is the only sensible solution. If it says AUTO-ISO it should be AUTO-ISO. If you choose manual and have ISO on AUTO, it should adjust the ISO to match your aperture and shutter speed. If you choose manual and have ISO manually set to an amount, it should remain so. There is nothing very complicated about that and it allows everyone to have what they want. The only other possible option would be completely disable AUTO-ISO when you got to manual so that if you click on the ISO menu, the AUTO-ISO feature now reads manual with some ISO indicated, whether it be the last one chosen by the AUTO-ISO on Automatic or the last one chosen manually. In this case, the ISO should be clearly indicated clicking it and then turning the wheel should allow you to change it. The current solution misdirects the user. It is not logical. The real problem is that Leica should have a physical ISO dial on the camera itself. It is a feature used too often in digital cameras not to have that. Even if rumors say that Leica will fix this bug in the future, they need to hear that it is not an isolated problem but that it is a major problem with these cameras. Is there an e-mail for someone at Leica that we can give feedback to? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted November 7, 2013 Posted November 7, 2013 Hi intermediatic, Take a look here Leica M240 Auto ISO. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
jaapv Posted November 8, 2013 Share #42 Posted November 8, 2013 It doesn’t work that way. One switches to manual to master difficult lighting situations. That should be possible without fiddling with menus and without taking the camera from the eye. Auto-ISO messes manual up. So it is not a bug, but a pure implementation of manual control. The other use which some advocate and I would like to have as an option is to use auto-ISO as an automatic i.e. non-manual exposure control to keep aperture and shutter speed stable. Very useful for long lenses and reportage in changing light. A camera should enable the user to make the choice depending on the use - and Leica has promised to provide just that. And please, please, change the colour of the ISO readout from red to white1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Surge Posted November 9, 2013 Share #43 Posted November 9, 2013 Awesome! It's a wonderful camera. I don't notice the extra size and weight. Are you from NY? I live in Queens Village. Enjoy, I'm sure you'll be happy with it. Thanks for the info! No, I live in Canada, but travel to NY often. Enjoy as well. Can't wait to get my new M next week. Had an M6 which I loved, but sold to get into digital. Tried to make the case for a less expensive digital (Fuji X, D800,...) but in the end, I decided to return to Leica. The others are just not the same...not even close. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted November 9, 2013 Share #44 Posted November 9, 2013 It is totally a bug. It makes no logical sense to have auto iso not be auto iso when you want to control the shutter speed yourself. Simple as that. As soon as you move off of A and pick your own shutter speed the camera stops varying the iso (auto iso) and sets the iso to a fixed iso (not auto iso). Leica screwed up and left Auto ISO displayed in the menu... but of course it is not changing with the lighting conditions... it is set... ie not auto iso... but it displays auto iso... hence a bug! Leica screwed up and didn't program the auto iso to keep changing the iso as you change the shutter speed. A bug. For the life of me I can't understand why you would not want it to work that way. Luckily, Leica is going to change it. Unfortunately, it is at the expense of another convoluted step that is not needed to keep the system streamlined and simple. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
viramati Posted November 9, 2013 Share #45 Posted November 9, 2013 I am totally with Rick on this one Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted November 9, 2013 Share #46 Posted November 9, 2013 I agree with Rick that it should remain simple and should be displayed correctly. I hope - and suppose- that Leica will implement it as a set-and-forget choice in the menu. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
intermediatic Posted November 9, 2013 Share #47 Posted November 9, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) It doesn’t work that way.One switches to manual to master difficult lighting situations. That should be possible without fiddling with menus and without taking the camera from the eye. Auto-ISO messes manual up. So it is not a bug, but a pure implementation of manual control. Not entirely. There are two uses for manual mode. One is as you said. The second, which I used more commonly, is to use it for particular conditions, for example to shoot a low depth of field but with a particular shutter speed to deal with motion. For that you want Auto-ISO. There should be options for both. However, given that Leica still hasn't figured out that even a lowly Canon Gxx series has an ISO knob on it, there is no way to really get what both of us want, which is to get the most out of manual without going to the menus. I don't see why I would ever spend the $x,xxx's to upgrade to the next M as this one addresses the M9's shortcomings, but the a dedicated ISO knob would do it. In that case, you would have the further option to shoot at a particular speed and have the shutter speed chosen given a particular aperture. Is there an application for this? Yes, sure. Say I'm shooting sports outdoors. Then I'd want to shoot in ISO 800 or 1000. That will give me a fast enough automatic shutter speed that as long as I'm in the ballpark (sorry about that pun) with my aperture, I'll be able to get a correct exposure. No time to monkey with manual in that condition. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulsydaus Posted November 26, 2013 Share #48 Posted November 26, 2013 You are in the same way right as we others are. Everyone has his own preferences. And Leica has to decide, whoes preferences they satisfy. Elmar I disagree, Leica should make the firmware flexible enough so that each person can achieve their desired shooting style through preferences. It's really not that hard... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted November 27, 2013 Share #49 Posted November 27, 2013 Agree; thart is the second paragraph in my post. Not entirely. There are two uses for manual mode. One is as you said. The second, which I used more commonly, is to use it for particular conditions, for example to shoot a low depth of field but with a particular shutter speed to deal with motion. For that you want Auto-ISO. There should be options for both. However, given that Leica still hasn't figured out that even a lowly Canon Gxx series has an ISO knob on it, there is no way to really get what both of us want, which is to get the most out of manual without going to the menus. I don't see why I would ever spend the $x,xxx's to upgrade to the next M as this one addresses the M9's shortcomings, but the a dedicated ISO knob would do it. In that case, you would have the further option to shoot at a particular speed and have the shutter speed chosen given a particular aperture. Is there an application for this? Yes, sure. Say I'm shooting sports outdoors. Then I'd want to shoot in ISO 800 or 1000. That will give me a fast enough automatic shutter speed that as long as I'm in the ballpark (sorry about that pun) with my aperture, I'll be able to get a correct exposure. No time to monkey with manual in that condition. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thighslapper Posted November 27, 2013 Share #50 Posted November 27, 2013 Luckily, Leica is going to change it. Unfortunately, it is at the expense of another convoluted step that is not needed to keep the system streamlined and simple. Not convoluted ...... just another on/off choice in the auto ISO screen 'Allow AUTO ISO with fixed shutter speed' Then set and forget as Jaap says...... They know the firmware coding as they have done it 'by accident' before....... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pieterpronk Posted November 27, 2013 Share #51 Posted November 27, 2013 Not convoluted ...... just another on/off choice in the auto ISO screen 'Allow AUTO ISO with fixed shutter speed' Then set and forget as Jaap says...... They know the firmware coding as they have done it 'by accident' before....... "Just another" is exactly how things get convoluted. If Leica adds such options for every bug they programm into firmwares or new camera's they will catch up quickly with their big competitors where you scroll through pages after pages of convoluted option screens. Already I find the M convoluted in this sense. Simplicity is something to guard with great resolve and vigilance as every little "just another" is chipping away at it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted November 28, 2013 Share #52 Posted November 28, 2013 Is it so hard to throw an electronic switch and leave it at its setting forever after? The M8 is a lot better if we follow that line. It has no auto-ISO. That is where the trouble started with people wanting to complicate things by adding an extra auto-feature, I guess. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
george + Posted November 28, 2013 Share #53 Posted November 28, 2013 Is it so hard to throw an electronic switch and leave it at its setting forever after? The M8 is a lot better if we follow that line. It has no auto-ISO. That is where the trouble started with people wanting to complicate things by adding an extra auto-feature, I guess. Sorry Jaap, the M8 does have auto ISO. One of the things they retrofitted in one of the releases. But otherwise, I am all for simplicity. That is the Leica way. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest roey Posted November 28, 2013 Share #54 Posted November 28, 2013 It doesn’t work that way.One switches to manual to master difficult lighting situations. That should be possible without fiddling with menus and without taking the camera from the eye. Auto-ISO messes manual up. So it is not a bug, but a pure implementation of manual control. I could understand that if the M240 had a mode dial with a Manual mode -- if you set it to "Manual" mode you'd want it to be manual. As it is the M240 doesn't have a manual mode but has a shutter speed dial and that shouldn't magically control the ISO settings. Shutter speed and ISO settings should be independent. You can set either to a specific setting or to automatic, that is easy to understand and gives the user complete control. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted November 28, 2013 Share #55 Posted November 28, 2013 Errr.. It has a manual dial with an "A"(tomatic) setting. It is not a point-and shoot mode dial. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hansmezger Posted November 28, 2013 Share #56 Posted November 28, 2013 Can someone please enlighten me on why it takes so long for leica to fix this auto iso issue.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted November 28, 2013 Share #57 Posted November 28, 2013 Errr.. It has a manual dial with an "A"(tomatic) setting. It is not a point-and shoot mode dial. I always had thought “A” stood for Aperture Priority Wilson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted November 28, 2013 Share #58 Posted November 28, 2013 Can someone please enlighten me on why it takes so long for leica to fix this auto iso issue.. ......because they have been so busy getting the R to M adapters and Multi-Function grips out to us - cough, splutter. Wilson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwbell Posted November 28, 2013 Share #59 Posted November 28, 2013 Oooh, matching Avatars! BFF!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thighslapper Posted November 28, 2013 Share #60 Posted November 28, 2013 Can someone please enlighten me on why it takes so long for leica to fix this auto iso issue.. Probably because they have two men and a dog doing it in their lunch hour whilst not fixing returned cameras with faults.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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