glenerrolrd Posted March 28, 2013 Share #121 Posted March 28, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) This is not support for your statement that M-E production was stopped last November. —Mitch/Potomac, MD Lanka Footsteps [M-Monochrom/Sri Lanka] Mitch Brett is a pretty well known source here and he has stated his source is solid . Thats about the best you can do on forum . If the Leica CEO told him over dinner he couldn t post that and frankly why should he . Whats with all this ..prove it stuff? We never get the facts completely even if you are talking directly to Leica ..because stuff happens and Leica changes their mind . Remember when we had members talking to the R product manager ? The ME was an interesting strategy that avoided Leica subsidized payments to dealers and lowered the entry point to a digital M . The price had to come down to attract new buyers ..so a stripped down model was introduced . The biggest issue with the ME would be the sensors ....how many would you like ? They want to have something to make while the M is being finished ..so they order a batch of sensors based on a forecast . Just like with the Panasonics when they run out they are out . They ran out of CCD replacements once this year in service . They are making M s now so its of no benefit to produce another run of the ME . The MONO will be another batch hopefully . My reaction to Brett s post was ..seems reasonable to me . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted March 28, 2013 Posted March 28, 2013 Hi glenerrolrd, Take a look here Leica M-E discontinued ?!. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
D&A Posted March 29, 2013 Share #122 Posted March 29, 2013 [quote I can't imagine why they would ditch their minimalist rangefinder model in favor of offering only one higher priced offering that does more than any other leica model has ever done (In terms of features and functiosn). Just doesn't seem "on brand". Without minimalism Leica just wont be Leica. Personally, I love my M-E. I owned an M6 previously and the M-E is my M6 with a sensor. Simple and totally Leica. ALl of the above is wishful thinking and opinion. __________________________________________________________ Two immediate and initial thoughts come to mind regarding some of your statements. I too believe Leica would eventually benefit from having two distinct interchangeable lens rangefinders in their product line. Keep in mind though when Each of the Leica's M8, M8.2 and then M9 were in the product line and in full swing regarding production, each was on their own...as the only model that was being solely produced and marketed as available (excluding what dealers might have had on their shelf. So if it turns out that the M240 is eventually the only model, then that would follow along previous lines of the M digital (M8, M8.2 & M9). Secondly, as I stated above, I too think there should be two different M digital rangefinders available simultaneously. The first is the current and new Leica M. The second is as you and others described, a more classic purist type rangefinder.....maybe nothing more than the new M with features like optional use of EVF,focus peaking capability, video as such removed (as well as those extra external buttons and a redesigned top plate, something akin to the M9-P. It would keep the improved LCD, quieter shutter, weather sealing and higher ISO performance using the same CMOS sensor. Of course some might prefer the M9 CCD, but lets assume they're no longer available. Price differential may not be all that much, but remember use of a Leica is based as much on emotional attachment and use as it is to the technology itself. Purists might prefer this more basic model and others who want state of the art features, the new M. As I stated elsewhere, using the on-going nomenclature, they could call this purist type camera the M-C (C for classic). Once the new facilities open up and production capacity increases, I could even see a entry level digital rangefinder based on the the current Leica M-E....especially if CCD's were available and the cost of production using the M-E's current shutter and parts makes it possible to price it maybe $500 less than it already is. In any case, I feel if Lecia was inclined to keep production of the M-E going for the foreseeable future, sales would pick up if it was priced lower and could competitively compete with used M9 offerings. I believe there are still a large group of users who are more than satisfied with the level of performance the 9(/M-E affords. Dave (D&A) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick_S Posted March 29, 2013 Share #123 Posted March 29, 2013 Personally, I love my M-E. I owned an M6 previously and the M-E is my M6 with a sensor. Simple and totally Leica. Surely its an M7 with sensor Nick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Geschlecht Posted March 29, 2013 Share #124 Posted March 29, 2013 Hello Everybody, A lot of this discussion sounds like: Leitz developed the M3. After that they built the IIIg. What will be the next improvement to the IIIg? The M240 is the direction of travel for the future. Leica is most likely not going to invest significant time or resources into something which is anchored in a World now gone. A more productive discussion might be: What is the future of the combined Range/Viewfinder? A technology which is both a Shining Star & an Achillies Heel at the same time. A Shining Star because of all the things it does very well. An Achillies Heel because of what it can not do in some situations & that it is an expensive technology with certain limitations that was developed in the First 1/2 of the 20th Century. A technology that has limited relevance to today's types of Industrial Production. Also: The current Leica is a Company that is primarily a Lens Maker that makes some components for its camera bodies. Leica would most likely prefer to concentrate more on lenses & leave the other aspects, such as camera manufacture, to outside suppliers as much as possible. While still maintaining their high standards. Best Regards, Michael Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdriceman Posted March 30, 2013 Share #125 Posted March 30, 2013 Do you really think there are no contracts about spare sensor production? Both the time span and the price? Actually, yes, I do think there are contracts for spare sensor production. It is a virtual certainty. I was responding to the specifics of the post I quoted. More of an "if that, then this" comment. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tobey bilek Posted March 30, 2013 Share #126 Posted March 30, 2013 Lets just hope they don`t go the Alpa route and build a hybrid RF and SLR camera for those who can`t make up their mind. Oh wait ! For those young un`s Alpa model 6 http://www.alpa.ch/en/about/history?year=2011&num=6 top right corner Image Detail for - ALPA REFLEX MODEL 6, 135 F-3.5 SCHNEIDER TELE-XENAR, WORKING, SHIPPING ... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thrid Posted March 31, 2013 Share #127 Posted March 31, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) Welcome to the digital age :-)Digital cameras are disposable cameras. They last 3-5 years, tops. But you don't have to buy and process film. So add it up like that. I'm pretty sure the roadmap is a lot like any other brands roadmap: 2013: New M240 Q1-Q2 2014: M9-P/Similar edition of the M240 Q4-2014 - Q2 2015: The rumor mill regarding the new Mxxx is starting to build up. Q3-Q4 2015: Announcement of a new Mxxx from Leica. Q2 2016: New Leica Mxxx shipping. In between there you will also see a few limited editions, designer editions, and maybe a Monochrome version of the M240 as well. And then... Rinse and repeat. Yep. It's enough to make you miss the simplicity of shooting film. Buy a good camera, service it regularly, get buried with it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Geschlecht Posted March 31, 2013 Share #128 Posted March 31, 2013 Hello thrid, Unless you build a basically modern mechanical camera with an easily removable, updatable, replacable digital module so that many of the potential drawbacks of digital photography today simply do not exisrt. An "M" version of a Hasselblad 500CM with an interchangable digital back. Possibly even still usable with film. Best Regards, Michael Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thrid Posted March 31, 2013 Share #129 Posted March 31, 2013 Hello thrid, Unless you build a basically modern mechanical camera with an easily removable, updatable, replacable digital module so that many of the potential drawbacks of digital photography today simply do not exisrt. An "M" version of a Hasselblad 500CM with an interchangable digital back. Possibly even still usable with film. Best Regards, Michael True, but a small format, interchangeable digital sensor camera is probably never going to happen for economic reasons. The great irony about film cameras was that the sensor improved as time when by, instead of falling further behind. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrozenInTime Posted March 31, 2013 Share #130 Posted March 31, 2013 True, but a small format, interchangeable digital sensor camera is probably never going to happen for economic reasons.The great irony about film cameras was that the sensor improved as time when by, instead of falling further behind. The Ricoh GXR with the A12-M mount was close, but the body processor and card interface has become too slow to keep pace with newer sensors. It now looks like there will not be an update and the GXR concept killed off. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Geschlecht Posted April 1, 2013 Share #131 Posted April 1, 2013 Hello thrid & Frozen, Another reason for NOT producing such a module which MIGHT take up the space of a current film cassette with a doo-dad going out of the "cartridge" like body & covering the film gate is: It would modernize MILLIONS of currently obsolete cameras previously manufactured by Companies all over the World & reduce their market for new cameras & lenses dramatically. Best Regards, Michael Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkP Posted April 1, 2013 Share #132 Posted April 1, 2013 Hello thrid & Frozen, Another reason for NOT producing such a module which MIGHT take up the space of a current film cassette with a doo-dad going out of the "cartridge" like body & covering the film gate is: It would modernize MILLIONS of currently obsolete cameras previously manufactured by Companies all over the World & reduce their market for new cameras & lenses dramatically. Best Regards, Michael All the more reason for a small dedicated company to produce such a device. A sensor projecting off the side of a 35mm cassette sized body with an SD card slot and advance ISO programming of sensor. Innumerable problems including very thin but robust sensor with a retractable protective cover. Let's set up a collective to produce it Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Geschlecht Posted April 1, 2013 Share #133 Posted April 1, 2013 Hello Mark, I wasn't disagreeing with producing such a device. As a matter of fact I think it is very reasonable. A digital insert for a 35mm film camera which would work like a digital back on a Hasselblad 500C. Just from a point of view of the preservation of resources & the recycling of valuable mechanisms alone it is a very good idea. A digital sensor + whatever else it needs in the size & shape of a film cartridge, with a doo-dad or 2 sticking out. It is an idea that has been around at least since Kodak made its first Digital Cameras using Nikon bodies. There were articles written in a number of magazines at that time including in the now long gone magazine "Modern Photography". It seems reasonable to me to produce such a device & it certainly seems more possible than: People flying thru the air. People talking to other people on the other side of the World. Or, even more likely than people & chimpanzees writing messages back & forth to each other. Or the wheel. Best Regards, Michael Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkP Posted April 1, 2013 Share #134 Posted April 1, 2013 Hello Mark, I wasn't disagreeing with producing such a device. As a matter of fact I think it is very reasonable. A digital insert for a 35mm film camera which would work like a digital back on a Hasselblad 500C. Just from a point of view of the preservation of resources & the recycling of valuable mechanisms alone it is a very good idea. A digital sensor + whatever else it needs in the size & shape of a film cartridge, with a doo-dad or 2 sticking out. It is an idea that has been around at least since Kodak made its first Digital Cameras using Nikon bodies. There were articles written in a number of magazines at that time including in the now long gone magazine "Modern Photography". Seems reasonable to me & certainly more possible than: People flying thru the air. People talking to other people on the other side of the World. Or, even more likely than people & chimpanzees writing messages back & forth to each other. Or the wheel. Best Regards, Michael Thanks Michael. No, I knew you were just putting forward a balanced view as usual . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hepcat Posted April 1, 2013 Share #135 Posted April 1, 2013 I held on to my 500 CM bodies and lenses several years longer than I should have expecting that someone would come out with a reasonably priced 645-sized sensor back for the Hassy. Alas it was not to be, but it's still a killer idea. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Geschlecht Posted April 1, 2013 Share #136 Posted April 1, 2013 Hello hepcat, With the cost of a digital back you get to SUBTRACT the cost of what would otherwise be paid for film & the processing of film EACH YEAR from what you paid for the digital back. Assuming the cost of printing the same final photograps from a digital back or film converted to digital would be the same for both. If you save $100 each year for 10 years that would be $1,000 you could subtract from the cost of the digital back, cards, etc. I would hang on to that Hasselblad equipment. You might want it in the future. Look what has happened to the availability & price of R & SL lenses & accessories since the M240 arrived. If you sell your Hasselblad equipment today & then can only buy 1/2 or 1/4 of it back AFTER the back you would like finally arrives: What good has that money done sitting in your pocket? Best Regards, Michael Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hepcat Posted April 1, 2013 Share #137 Posted April 1, 2013 Michael, I sold the Hassy equipment about ten years ago, and got top dollar for it then. The prices have tanked since and I could buy it back today for a quarter of what I sold it for. I always thought that there would be a huge market for a $2000 digital back for Hassy... and I didn't think it'd be that hard to produce. Obviously no one who could make that happen agreed with me, and at $30k for the current digital Hassy, apparently I was wrong. It was still a great idea though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Geschlecht Posted April 1, 2013 Share #138 Posted April 1, 2013 Hello hepcat, I misunderstood what happened. I thought you still had the equipment today. Selling it 10 years ago, retrospectively, was not a bad idea. Altho you might consider buying a body or so back now with some of the lenses which were originally built to specifications compatable with digital today such as the 100mm 3.5 Planar. You might also buy a few A12 or A16 backs to use with film in the mean time. Perhaps a bellows, etc. Then, when either a price reduction occurs OR when there are so many generations of new developments of digital backs that one of the "obsolete" backs many generations old produces images that are just fine: Then buy a not too expensive digital back to use with your bargain Hasselblads & lenses, etc. Best Regards, Michael Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
viramati Posted April 1, 2013 Share #139 Posted April 1, 2013 The amazing thing is that it is still listed among the new products on the leica site Leica Camera AG - New Products Brett may well be right and he has more inside knowledge than most of us. As we all know leica marketing and product release seem to be a rule unto their own Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest odeon Posted April 1, 2013 Share #140 Posted April 1, 2013 Welcome to the digital age :-)Digital cameras are disposable cameras. They last 3-5 years, tops. But you don't have to buy and process film. So add it up like that. I'm pretty sure the roadmap is a lot like any other brands roadmap: 2013: New M240 Q1-Q2 2014: M9-P/Similar edition of the M240 Q4-2014 - Q2 2015: The rumor mill regarding the new Mxxx is starting to build up. Q3-Q4 2015: Announcement of a new Mxxx from Leica. Q2 2016: New Leica Mxxx shipping. In between there you will also see a few limited editions, designer editions, and maybe a Monochrome version of the M240 as well. And then... Rinse and repeat. Well, well, well. It's digital age's fact. If you mull over about this, it will be digital age's f*ck for you. Keep the Leica M-240 and be happy. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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