MirekE Posted August 8, 2013 Share #141 Posted August 8, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) Adding couple, possibly interesting data points for cold start: Sandisk Extreme Pro 32GB 45MB/s: 11 seconds Same card after formatting in SDFormatter: 4 seconds Sandisk Extreme 16GB 45MB/s, no SDFormatter: approx. 1s Formatting in SDFormatter not attempted. Please note that the second card is the cheaper type, not "Pro". Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted August 8, 2013 Posted August 8, 2013 Hi MirekE, Take a look here M240 SD Cards and Associated Camera Function Speeds. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
dwbell Posted August 8, 2013 Share #142 Posted August 8, 2013 Just some random playing observations here. If I turn the camera on from 5-10 seconds of off, in RF mode, classic metering, no bells - I can be waiting 3 ish seconds until it will fire. If I turn the camera off and on again with only a 1 second pause between and do the same I get instant shutter release. So I guess somewhere a capacitor is being charged and then able to discharge to release the shutter, from "cold" it must charge for those 3 or so seconds. From off->on it has retained it' charge or lost very little. So perhaps it's going to be a hardware limited problem which can't be fixed in firmware? (For my style of shooting it's not a big issue.) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lindolfi Posted August 8, 2013 Share #143 Posted August 8, 2013 If I turn the camera off and on again with only a 1 second pause between and do the same I get instant shutter release. So I guess somewhere a capacitor is being charged and then able to discharge to release the shutter, from "cold" it must charge for those 3 or so seconds. From off->on it has retained it' charge or lost very little. You probably noticed that the power switch on the camera is not really a power switch. If you turn the camera off while it is writing to card, it will keep writing. So it may be that when you turn the camera off, the processor is still running during that 1 second, which makes the restart so much faster. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwbell Posted August 8, 2013 Share #144 Posted August 8, 2013 You probably noticed that the power switch on the camera is not really a power switch. If you turn the camera off while it is writing to card, it will keep writing. So it may be that when you turn the camera off, the processor is still running during that 1 second, which makes the restart so much faster. One could test this by leaving the on camera inactive for 20 secs, then off -> 1 sec -> on take shot though right? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lindolfi Posted August 8, 2013 Share #145 Posted August 8, 2013 One could test this by leaving the on camera inactive for 20 secs, then off -> 1 sec -> on take shot though right? Depends on whether an inactive camera that is switched on is not processing anything that needs to be finished when you switch it off. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwbell Posted August 8, 2013 Share #146 Posted August 8, 2013 I could set auto off to never and wait a suitable time to ensure inactivity. What would be a suitable time? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lindolfi Posted August 8, 2013 Share #147 Posted August 8, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) Sorry, I don't know, did not write the software. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico Posted August 8, 2013 Share #148 Posted August 8, 2013 Sorry, I don't know, did not write the software. We must persuade Leica to go OPEN SOURCE! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Hassing Posted August 12, 2013 Share #149 Posted August 12, 2013 It seems that the choice of SD card for the M240 can make a significant impact on start and wake times, as well as buffer capacity. Please list your cards and experiences here so we may all benefit from learning what cards offer the best performance. ...... Transcend SDHC Class 10, 8GB & 16GB cards. Time to Power on: 4-5 sec. Time to Wake with LV: 5 sec. Time to Wake w/o LV: 5 sec. Buffer: 6 frames continuous, then 1 per second. SanDisk Pro SDHC Class 10, 32GB card, 95MB/sec. Time to Power on: 3 sec. Time to Wake with LV: 3 sec. Time to Wake w/o LV: 3 sec. Buffer: 9 frames continuous, then 1 or 2 per second. This turned out to be a timely thread for me. I've had my Leica M 240 for three days now and spent some time yesterday afternoon with it. I shot 21 photos using the Automatic Multiport exposure option when the camera locked up. The red write-to-card light was on and nothing else worked. I finally removed and reinserted the battery and the camera seemed to function again. I was using a SanDisk Ultra 16GB card which had been formatted in the camera. After reading this thread, I picked up a SanDisk Extreme SDHC Class 10 32GB card which I haven't tried yet and a SanDisk Extreme Pro SDHC Class 10 32GB card which I formatted in the camera and used the rest of the day without any problems. The SanDisk Extreme SDHC card claims speeds up to 95MB/sec which seemed a good fit for the large M 240 files and video. So far, it has worked flawlessly but then I discovered something interesting when I tried to get timing data. This may have been noted by others on the forum already in which case I apologize for being redundant. In single frame shooting with Classic selected for exposure mode, the camera will click off shots as fast as I can push the button with no wait time. In Automatic exposure mode, however, regardless of whether multi-field, center-weighted or spot mode is selected, the camera takes over a second to cycle until it's ready to take another one. It turns out to be the length of time it takes to retrieve the last photo for review. But turning review off doesn't change the time it takes to recycle. In continuous shooting, there is no discernible time difference between Classic and Automatic exposure modes. There is one other oddity I've noticed. Selecting Automatic multi-field usually results in perfect exposures but Classic mode underexposes by anywhere from a half-stop to a full stop. Classic even underexposes compared to Automatic center-weighted which I expected to be comparable. I'm curious if others have noticed the same thing or is my camera unique? Tom Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted August 12, 2013 Share #150 Posted August 12, 2013 Your startup times could be somewhat faster i believe. My findings on a dozen cards for those interested: http://tinyurl.com/kp8qe83. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted August 12, 2013 Share #151 Posted August 12, 2013 Well, the only card from your list I tried was the Panasonic Gold Pro 16 GB and the fastest it would go was about 2.4 seconds no matter how I formatted it..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted August 12, 2013 Share #152 Posted August 12, 2013 Well, the only card from your list I tried was the Panasonic Gold Pro 16 GB and the fastest it would go was about 4 seconds no matter how I formatted it..... You said 2.4s about a Panasonic Gold if memory serves. Which one did you use then? And what about your Lexar 600x and Sandisk Extreme? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
StephenPatterson Posted August 12, 2013 Author Share #153 Posted August 12, 2013 In single frame shooting with Classic selected for exposure mode, the camera will click off shots as fast as I can push the button with no wait time. In Automatic exposure mode, however, regardless of whether multi-field, center-weighted or spot mode is selected, the camera takes over a second to cycle until it's ready to take another one. It turns out to be the length of time it takes to retrieve the last photo for review. But turning review off doesn't change the time it takes to recycle. In continuous shooting, there is no discernible time difference between Classic and Automatic exposure modes. This is perfectly normal. When shooting in "Classical" metering mode the camera is metering off of the closed shutter curtains via the small meter in the base of the lens mount chamber and as soon as you press the shutter release the exposure begins. In continuous mode the shutter will fire again as soon as the buffer indicates ready but often this is at the rated speed of I believe 4fps. In "Advanced" metering mode (you refer to "Automatic Exposure Mode" but I assume you mean "Advanced") the camera is metering via the sensor, and obviously for this to happen the shutter must be open so the sensor can meter the scene. In single model the sequence is 1. Shutter open to meter scene. 2. Shutter release pressed. 3. Shutter closes to prepare for exposure. 4. Shutter opens to begin exposure. 5. Shutter closes to end exposure. 6. Shutter opens to begin metering for next shot. The difference is that in continuous mode step #6 is skipped and the camera goes straight to step #4, significantly increasing speed. There is one other oddity I've noticed. Selecting Automatic multi-field usually results in perfect exposures but Classic mode underexposes by anywhere from a half-stop to a full stop. Classic even underexposes compared to Automatic center-weighted which I expected to be comparable. I'm curious if others have noticed the same thing or is my camera unique? Tom This is also quite normal for classic metering. In advanced metering mode the sensor views the entire scene, and complex algorithms calculate exposure, often ignoring strong point light sources. The exact code is proprietary, so we can only guess at the decision making process of the camera, but the general idea is to try and evaluate the overall scene and make calculated decisions on the photographer's intent to capture certain elements at normal exposure. There is an excellent article about classical metering (with the M9 but the M240 works much the same) at Thorsten Overgaard's site: here The main point that I always stress to new Leica users is that when using classical metering you must remember that the choice of lens radically effects the scene being metered (when looking through the optical viewfinder), and while a 28mm lens will result in a nice center weighted oval a 90mm lens will give you a spot reading. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Hassing Posted August 12, 2013 Share #154 Posted August 12, 2013 Stephen, thanks for taking the time to explain the differences in metering. This was really helpful. Most of my experience has been with Nikon equipment doing commercial photography so the Leica M 240 is a new challenge. The pictures it produces are incredible and I'm looking forward to learning this camera. Again, thanks. Tom Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted August 12, 2013 Share #155 Posted August 12, 2013 You said 2.4s about a Panasonic Gold if memory serves. Which one did you use then? And what about your Lexar 600x and Sandisk Extreme?Sorry, the "2." got lost in posting somehow. Corrected now. Lexar 1.7, Sandisk not measured, but appeared slow. I did not bother to try formatting. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mauribix Posted August 25, 2013 Share #156 Posted August 25, 2013 Hi Folks, so did this came to an end/solution? I bought a bunch of new cards: Lexar, Panasonic and Sandisk too, but nothing seems to be acceptable in my opinion. The fastest switch on I get has been with a 2GB Trascend sd card (+/- 2.5") I tried the 600x lexar 32GB, as well as the Sandisk 32GB 45MB/s and 95MB/s. The only way I can switch on the camera with an acceptable time is... WITHOUT CARD! The fastest I found, was a 16GB 45MB/S card by Sandisk (one that I previously used with my M9 for at least 2years, and it was after using SDformatter). Definitely, the M 240 is making a check on the card, and why this is happening, it's still an enigma to me. There's no other professional/amateur camera that I know that is doing this. In any case the card's size is definitely playin' a role, since the slowest card I have (the 2GB) is even the smallest one, but nevertheless, it is the fastest to le the camera switch on! As a test, I put an unreadable SD card on the M240 as well as on the Fuji x-pro1 that I have. The results: -The M 240 says that it can't shoot since the card is unreadable (so I don't get the picture) -The Fuji Xp-1 first shoot, and then says that it can't save the frame (so I don't get the picture anyway). Now whether the best solution is the Leica or Fuji's I don't mind to bother since you don't get the picture anyway, but if this is the reason why I keep on loosing shots because of the startup time, the answer is quite obvious to me. I've already spent more than a couple of months with the M240, and this is really a bad thing for a camera like this, for its price, and for the kind of use it is supposed to be made for. I found myself having to keep "alive" the camera continuously, so that will of course null the new battery efficiency. If someone came out with a solution, please let me know. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted August 25, 2013 Share #157 Posted August 25, 2013 Hi Maurizio, no solution so far AFAIK but aside from the best performance of some small "SD" cards, i've found that a startup time of 2 seconds or slightly less (1.7s at best for me) is not out of reach when using SDFormatter and 8 to 16 GB fast cards like Sandisk Extreme Pro, Panasonic Gold "pro" or Toshiba Exceria. Sounds like all M240s don't behave the same way with the same cards though. http://tinyurl.com/kp8qe83 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
South Bird Posted August 26, 2013 Share #158 Posted August 26, 2013 I got a card too slow indication and it stopped recording in movie mode with the Delkin SD 163x 32 gb card. It is a class 10 so don't know why. Other San Disc cards work fine. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted August 26, 2013 Share #159 Posted August 26, 2013 I got a card too slow indication and it stopped recording in movie mode with the Delkin SD 163x 32 gb card... It is indeed a relatively slow card with 24/17 MBs. Secure Digital | Good: 32GB SDHC 163X Class 10 Cards (2 Pack) | Delkin Devices You might wish to try faster ones like Delkin SD 633x (95/80 MBs). Secure Digital | Best: 32GB SDHC 633X UHS-I Memory Card | Delkin Devices I have no experience with either card though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mauribix Posted August 26, 2013 Share #160 Posted August 26, 2013 Thank you Bill, my concern is still there anyway... I'm expecting a fix soon, since this is a step backward compared to the M9. Do you know if somebody already wrote this down to Leica? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.