MirekE Posted March 23, 2013 Share #21 Posted March 23, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) I today picked up a 95mbs class 10 card to try as I have many other class 10 cards. I am assured this was the fastest card on the market. My startup times are 2.5 secs whether from standy or direct on/off....i would love to see a video of this claimed 0.5 seconds time....as i am finding it hard to believe it can do that with any card, unless its as mentioned earlier just a glitch with the latest firmware (i also am running the latest). Which brand please? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted March 23, 2013 Posted March 23, 2013 Hi MirekE, Take a look here M240 SD Cards and Associated Camera Function Speeds. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Fgcm Posted March 23, 2013 Share #22 Posted March 23, 2013 I today picked up a 95mbs class 10 card to try as I have many other class 10 cards. I am assured this was the fastest card on the market. My startup times are 2.5 secs whether from standy or direct on/off....i would love to see a video of this claimed 0.5 seconds time....as i am finding it hard to believe it can do that with any card, unless its as mentioned earlier just a glitch with the latest firmware (i also am running the latest). I checked again. Sandisk Extreme 16 Mb 45 Mb/s. Camera starts up very fast. Less than one second. I can fire immediately after frames lit up in the finder, even if the led on the rear is still blinking. Wake up time is as fast or a little faster. Franco Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted March 23, 2013 Share #23 Posted March 23, 2013 We have had this with the M8 and M9 and I strongly suspect this is the same issue on the M. Confusion arises from the blinking of the rear LED, which can be quite a while after startup. Users tend to wait for the blinking to stop before using the camera, although it is ready to take a shot almost instantly, regardless of the LED. Can an M owner confirm? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thighslapper Posted March 24, 2013 Share #24 Posted March 24, 2013 Never bothered to look at the light..... Frames come up almost instantly and I just keep pressing the shutter till I take a photo.. Tried several Sandisk Extremes 16gb's and they are all the same..... <0.5 sec from standby and <1 sec from switch on.... Basically .... If I switch on the camera, raise it to my eye and focus I can take a picture ..... no delay..... These timings involve pre-focussing and switching on/depressing shutter whilst looking through the viewfinder.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
StephenPatterson Posted March 24, 2013 Author Share #25 Posted March 24, 2013 We have had this with the M8 and M9 and I strongly suspect this is the same issue on the M. Confusion arises from the blinking of the rear LED, which can be quite a while after startup. Users tend to wait for the blinking to stop before using the camera, although it is ready to take a shot almost instantly, regardless of the LED.Can an M owner confirm? Jaap, I am doing all my testing by holding down the shutter button to wake and when switching on the camera, not waiting for the lights to stop blinking. As others have mentioned I can come nowhere near 0.5 second startup. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
k-hawinkler Posted March 24, 2013 Share #26 Posted March 24, 2013 Stephen, Thanks. Can you get access to and try a reportedly faster card before you need to commit to buy? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
StephenPatterson Posted March 24, 2013 Author Share #27 Posted March 24, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) I will be heading south to Liuzhou and Hong Kong in about a week, so hope to try some cards out soon. I don't dare buy any here in mainland China, as the likelihood is they will be knockoff Sandisk. There is a reason mainland Chinese all go to Hong Kong to buy electronics, baby milk powder, cosmetics, etc. At this point it seems that the speed of the card may not be the only factor effecting operation times, which is why I want to build this database to try and narrow the list. What we know from F8inHK (my friend in crime) is that just having a blazing fast card does not necessarily bring faster start and wake times, but we need to look at the manufacturer of the card. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_tribble Posted March 24, 2013 Share #28 Posted March 24, 2013 We have had this with the M8 and M9 and I strongly suspect this is the same issue on the M. Confusion arises from the blinking of the rear LED, which can be quite a while after startup. Users tend to wait for the blinking to stop before using the camera, although it is ready to take a shot almost instantly, regardless of the LED.Can an M owner confirm? Jaap - a useful observation. I've just checked on both my M bodies and you're right (Sandisk 16GB C10 45 MB/s). You can take an image in a very short period of time from turning on, AND while the red light is still blinking. I'd always assumed that you had to wait for the light to stop before you could shoot. You live and learn! HOWEVER - it's still not .5 of a second - more like 2-3 seconds? I get this by focusing on a digital clock and watching the seconds tick until I can fire off a shot. QUESTION - what's happening while the red-light's flashing? What's the value / use of this aspect of start-up? Could it be eliminated to avoid confusion? ALSO - I wonder why there's such a difference between the menus being available (end of red flashing LED) and shooting being possible. It's a strange kind of inconsistency. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thighslapper Posted March 24, 2013 Share #29 Posted March 24, 2013 I can think of only a few possible camera settings that might influence start up time ...... ........ possibly file type and compression ........ metering method (although I assume all the alternatives only activate when you are in live view) ........ folder naming and file numbering ..... .... but I would have thought most of these would cause delay after pressing the shutter.... BTW I used new cards and did not format them at all...... although I changed the folder settings on all the profiles to 400Leica and my initial photo to L400XXX1 so my numbering does not clash with previous M's..... As I am beginning to think people don't believe me ..... I've tried again this morning and after switch on it takes pics on the 2nd attempted shutter press .... which is too quick to time and certainly under a second...... frame lines and speed come up almost instantly and the red light on the back of the camera flashes rapidly for about half a second. Behaviour after standby is similar but noticeably quicker. Delays on computers are invariably because the processor is stuck in a loop that only terminates when timed-out. It is hard to come up with anything that the camera is usefully doing with the card/processor interface that could take 2-5 seconds ..... and checking and activating the electronic parts of the camera itself must take milliseconds...... All very mysterious ..... if it isn't purely a card speed issue...... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonoslack Posted March 24, 2013 Share #30 Posted March 24, 2013 It is hard to come up with anything that the camera is usefully doing with the card/processor interface that could take 2-5 seconds ..... and checking and activating the electronic parts of the camera itself must take milliseconds...... All very mysterious ..... if it isn't purely a card speed issue...... HI There Great information - which might also be useful to Leica. I think this really bears a little testing. I understood that the flashing light was reading the card - I'm still getting around 4 seconds with a 32Gb 95ms Sandisk extreme I think we need a standard methodology for this how about Inserting an empty card and then: Press the shutter and hold it down whilst turning on the camera and measure the time until the shutter releases. I'm using: RAW + jpg (for ipad), Compressed DNG, Classic metering. What are you using? Fascinated from China all the best Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_tribble Posted March 24, 2013 Share #31 Posted March 24, 2013 Dear Jono - 2 things seem important. 1/ first shot time 2/ access to electronic controls / menus etc. Using your test conditions (holding a finger on the shutter release and then turning on) with Sandisk 16GB C10 48MB/s + camera settings A mode / 200 ISO DNG compressed, I get the following on Camera #1 RESULT #1 - Using the well established darkroom timer method (), I count "5 potato" before the shutter releases. RESULT #2 - It's around "6 potato" before the menu becomes available. Using Camera #2 with the same card and settings - I get the same results. Around 5 potatoes to first shot / 6 potatoes to menu available. I also tried this with manual shutter speed and it's the same. What I'm finding confusing, is that when I tried this last time (immediately after reading Jaap's post), I was getting a quicker first shot. I've tried formatting the card, but this makes no difference. Any one else tried this? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
k-hawinkler Posted March 24, 2013 Share #32 Posted March 24, 2013 I can think of only a few possible camera settings that might influence start up time ...... ........ possibly file type and compression ........ metering method (although I assume all the alternatives only activate when you are in live view) ........ folder naming and file numbering ..... .... but I would have thought most of these would cause delay after pressing the shutter.... BTW I used new cards and did not format them at all...... although I changed the folder settings on all the profiles to 400Leica and my initial photo to L400XXX1 so my numbering does not clash with previous M's..... As I am beginning to think people don't believe me ..... I've tried again this morning and after switch on it takes pics on the 2nd attempted shutter press .... which is too quick to time and certainly under a second...... frame lines and speed come up almost instantly and the red light on the back of the camera flashes rapidly for about half a second. Behaviour after standby is similar but noticeably quicker. Delays on computers are invariably because the processor is stuck in a loop that only terminates when timed-out. It is hard to come up with anything that the camera is usefully doing with the card/processor interface that could take 2-5 seconds ..... and checking and activating the electronic parts of the camera itself must take milliseconds...... All very mysterious ..... if it isn't purely a card speed issue...... Hi, I certainly believe you. Too bad, I don't have my M yet. I pre-ordered in September one day after it was announced. It would be really helpful if you could report all your camera settings and what you are doing to your camera to get these desirable short start up times. It also would be helpful if you changed your settings and recorded whether there are any timing differences. Also, what happens if you use a different kind of memory card in your M? Thanks. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thighslapper Posted March 24, 2013 Share #33 Posted March 24, 2013 Also, what happens if you use a different kind of memory card in your M? Thanks. As I said ...... an old sandisk ultra class 6, 20mb/sec halves the start up speed, but it still is <3 secs. Sandisk extreme pro 45mb/sec (no clsssification on it) unsurprisingly behaves the same as the current extreme....... Eye Fi pro x2's are class 10 and have a measured real use throughput of 12mb/sec. They behave the same as the Sandisk extremes .... if anything they seem a bit quicker. The figures on the Sandisks are maximum thoughputs under optimum conditions if the interface supports this speed ....... but the current generation are advertised as quicker than their equivalent class 10 predecessors. I've only ever bought Sandisk Ultras or Extremes.... so I don't have any crap SD's to try .... sorry .... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thighslapper Posted March 24, 2013 Share #34 Posted March 24, 2013 I have spent rivetingly exciting hour taken photos of a digital stopwatch on the computer...... What seems very fast and responsive to me is in fact a bit slower than I thought ... and it its difficult to be accurate judging when the On becomes on and trying not to cheat...... Anyway, the frame lines and speed show on the display within about 3/4 second and the shutter releases after a similar delay .... all the figures I recorded are comfortably under 2 secs..... although in reality it doesn't seem like a delay at all ..... and unless you were taking pictures blind without composing or focussing it is hard to see how there could be a situation where you would miss anything...... From standby it seems about 1/2 sec quicker .... but as you have to wait 2 mins between shots the novelty wore off and I don't have the enthusiasm to pursue rigorous testing further.... Whatever, 5 seconds by comparison seems an eternity Nb....... I have just inadvertently put my Monochrom card in and taken some photos ..... that DOES significantly reduce start up time .... to about 4 secs .... and it is also an extreme class 10 45mb/sec.... so having non M images clearly confuses the start-up process.... I'm happy this the responsiveness from start-up and standby and although not instant as with my old D700 (if it doesn't have to autofocus) it will do for me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonoslack Posted March 24, 2013 Share #35 Posted March 24, 2013 Nb....... I have just inadvertently put my Monochrom card in and taken some photos ..... that DOES significantly reduce start up time .... to about 4 secs .... and it is also an extreme class 10 45mb/sec.... so having non M images clearly confuses the start-up process.... HI There what happens if you format that card in the M and then test it again? I'm just interested, because all my cards HAVE been formatted i the M first, and even fast and empty I'm not getting a startup much better than 4 seconds. all the best Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott kirkpatrick Posted March 24, 2013 Share #36 Posted March 24, 2013 Are any of your cards new since production firmware came out, or have all your cards been formatted first in one of the pre-production M's, with early firmware? In that case a reformat may not change something that is essential. I suggest making a really clear card by doing "erase all" or even reformat in the computer, then format in an M with current firmware to see if that cleans things up. Anyway it's something to try. How was China? scott Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico Posted March 24, 2013 Share #37 Posted March 24, 2013 I suggest making a really clear card by doing "erase all" or even reformat in the computer, then format in an M with current firmware to see if that cleans things up. Anyway it's something to try. For better or worse, perhaps. The following might be important. SD Association -The SD Formatter was created specifically for memory cards using the SD/SDHC/SDXC standards. It is strongly recommended to use the SD Formatter instead of formatting utilities provided with operating systems that format various types of storage media. Using generic formatting utilities may result in less than optimal performance for your memory cards. You can download their free software, SDFormatter from their site. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_tribble Posted March 24, 2013 Share #38 Posted March 24, 2013 Having a go at downloading this - but gosh it's a slow website! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico Posted March 24, 2013 Share #39 Posted March 24, 2013 Having a go at downloading this - but gosh it's a slow website! It is good here. I suppose you noticed a bit of illiteracy, or less than a mastery of English on parts of the site. Disappointing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thighslapper Posted March 24, 2013 Share #40 Posted March 24, 2013 Some old cards, some new cards, some pre-formatted and some erased and formatted in camera..... no difference .... and all sandisk extreme class 10 45mb. I keep them seperate for each M body as they all have unique numbering and folder names. The other old spare M9 cards I re-formatted show the same results... I suppose I should upload the new firmware and see if everything slows down..... but as it's a one way trip I will pass on that for now..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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