StephenPatterson Posted March 21, 2013 Share #1 Posted March 21, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) I'm struggling a bit with my shooting technique with the M240 with EVF and I'm curious if anyone else is having the same difficulties adjusting to this new way of shooting. Without the EVF no problem, I use the M240 just like my M9. I run in Aperture Priority and I first aim the camera and 18% grey or as close as I can find (or whatever I wish to meter on), hold down the shutter half way, shift to my focus point, recompose if necessary and shoot. With the EVF attached if you lock in a meter reading by holding the shutter half way the EVF will not zoom, either in automatic or manual. This is a problem when shooting with the Noctilux wide open as you loose the advantage of 5x or 10x focus peaking. Of course you can focus first, then shift to meter, then recompose but this is going to lower the keeper rate and throw off focus, especially wide open and in close. Perhaps if there was a way to lock in exposure without holding down the shutter half way that would work better. Of course I can always go to full manual exposure, and with all info displayed in the EVF there is a great exposure compensation bar and real time histogram at the bottom. Slow, but perhaps the best way. Suggestions? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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wlaidlaw Posted March 21, 2013 Share #2 Posted March 21, 2013 I'm struggling a bit with my shooting technique with the M240 with EVF and I'm curious if anyone else is having the same difficulties adjusting to this new way of shooting. Without the EVF no problem, I use the M240 just like my M9. I run in Aperture Priority and I first aim the camera and 18% grey or as close as I can find (or whatever I wish to meter on), hold down the shutter half way, shift to my focus point, recompose if necessary and shoot. With the EVF attached if you lock in a meter reading by holding the shutter half way the EVF will not zoom, either in automatic or manual. This is a problem when shooting with the Noctilux wide open as you loose the advantage of 5x or 10x focus peaking. Of course you can focus first, then shift to meter, then recompose but this is going to lower the keeper rate and throw off focus, especially wide open and in close. Perhaps if there was a way to lock in exposure without holding down the shutter half way that would work better. Of course I can always go to full manual exposure, and with all info displayed in the EVF there is a great exposure compensation bar and real time histogram at the bottom. Slow, but perhaps the best way. Suggestions? Stephen, I think you will have to go to manual exposure to use this sort of work flow. Remembering that with the wider DR of the M, that gives you more latitude to correct exposure in PP. As I posted in another thread, super accurate focusing using the zoom for extra fast or long lenses, is not without its ergonomic/handling challenges on the M. Wilson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
StephenPatterson Posted March 21, 2013 Author Share #3 Posted March 21, 2013 Cheers Wilson, here's what I would wish for when using the EVF 1. Aim camera at desire light source and lock exposure with M button 2. Shift camera to scene and focus with focus aid auto zoom 3. Compose and shoot. If it worked like this it would be nearly as fast as the rangefinder. As it is now my friend in HK and I who are using the new M feel the EVF is S L O W W W W. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkP Posted March 21, 2013 Share #4 Posted March 21, 2013 1. Aim camera at desire light source and lock exposure with M button 2. Shift camera to scene and focus with focus aid auto zoom 3. Compose and shoot. It seems to be an obvious workflow. Obviously it is too obvious for Leica. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thighslapper Posted March 21, 2013 Share #5 Posted March 21, 2013 ..... a matter of habit really ..... ... I have always done my own version of this even with the M9..... particularly with wide angles where too much sky ruins the foreground exposure .... .... but I always focus first..... then lock exposure ..... so for me it's fine.... I suppose its all a matter of acquired dexterity to manage the finger dance required with zooming/unzooming as well...... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted March 21, 2013 Share #6 Posted March 21, 2013 ..... a matter of habit really ..... ... I have always done my own version of this even with the M9..... particularly with wide angles where too much sky ruins the foreground exposure .... .... but I always focus first..... then lock exposure ..... so for me it's fine.... I suppose its all a matter of acquired dexterity to manage the finger dance required with zooming/unzooming as well...... ....ah well you see - picture of Solms Goblin hand Wilson Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/201007-struggling-a-bit-using-the-m240-evf/?do=findComment&comment=2278034'>More sharing options...
Ivan Muller Posted March 21, 2013 Share #7 Posted March 21, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) Does the M not have multi segment metering? For years I have relied on aperture priority multi segment metering and it works for me most of the time. I also dial in a +1/2 exposure compensation as a matter of course - but this might change depending on camera system. Just wondering if this could work with the M? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeicaMSeattle Posted March 21, 2013 Share #8 Posted March 21, 2013 Put the EVF away and focus/adj app the conventional old fashion way! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
StephenPatterson Posted March 21, 2013 Author Share #9 Posted March 21, 2013 Focusing the 0.95 Noctilux with the EVF is truly magical, if I could just get the exposure locked in first. As far as I can tell the only way to do this is by using full manual mode, which is not as easy with the EVF sitting on top of the shutter speed dial. My frustration is there are so many buttons and dials on the camera that are doing nothing most of the time while shooting but could be put to good use. Have the M button lock exposure and hold it until pressed again (instead of Movie mode, Menu selectable). Have the ability to set exposure compensation by simply turning the thumb wheel (like on the M9). Allow Focus Aid: ON to work even with an exposure locked in. See, not such a big deal. It's a new day, and we are all learning how to tame this thoroughbred into a race horse... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_tribble Posted March 21, 2013 Share #10 Posted March 21, 2013 Stephen - give manual exposure a chance - really, really. The info panel on the EVF is very nicely implemented (just hit the info button) and you can then get the exposure exactly as you want it, then frame and focus. For SO many situations (especially where exposure is critical), this is a much better way of working than A mode + exposure compensation... Go on - give it a try! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
k-hawinkler Posted March 21, 2013 Share #11 Posted March 21, 2013 Stephen - give manual exposure a chance - really, really. The info panel on the EVF is very nicely implemented (just hit the info button) and you can then get the exposure exactly as you want it, then frame and focus. For SO many situations (especially where exposure is critical), this is a much better way of working than A mode + exposure compensation... Go on - give it a try! Chris, Thanks. One always can do that. But it doesn't address Stephen's larger point. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanG Posted March 21, 2013 Share #12 Posted March 21, 2013 Yes an independent exposure lock is common on many other cameras. But I am kind of mystified why you are trying to use such an aim and recompose exposure technique with an EVF in the first place. Can't you rely on your view through the EVF and the histogram to confirm your exposure and adjust a bit accordingly if necessary? Even in manual mode this would seem to be faster and more accurate than looking for 18% gray areas in similar light levels all of the time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
StephenPatterson Posted March 21, 2013 Author Share #13 Posted March 21, 2013 Yes an independent exposure lock is common on many other cameras. But I am kind of mystified why you are trying to use such an aim and recompose exposure technique with an EVF in the first place. Can't you rely on your view through the EVF and the histogram to confirm your exposure and adjust a bit accordingly if necessary? To get a histogram in the EVF you have to turn on all the display items, which substantially blocks the view. Also these icons become even more confusing when shooting in portrait. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted March 21, 2013 Share #14 Posted March 21, 2013 I know it is not going to happen but I would have switched a few of the buttons around. I would have put the movie button on the front, where the zoom AE button is, as that is probably going to be the least used on most folks' M's and for me, is the most difficult to reach. I would have made the movie button the info button and the info button into the zoom/aperture lock button, as the easiest to reach with a thumb, while fingers are doing other actions. The human brain, unless you are a musician or professional typist, finds it easier to do different things with a thumb and finger to different things with fingers on the same hand. After it was pressed, for over a second, you would have say five seconds to change aperture compensation or if you held it down, it would lock the aperture. A quick press would zoom/unzoom Wilson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
StephenPatterson Posted March 21, 2013 Author Share #15 Posted March 21, 2013 Wilson, with firmware all is possible. M doesn't have to stand for "Movie", it can stand for "Multipurpose"! That darn focus peaking button is just a tough one to access... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
250swb Posted March 21, 2013 Share #16 Posted March 21, 2013 I know the Noctilux is a trickey beast to focus wide open, but I just wonder if you aren't trying too hard to refine focus with the EVF. Using the Leica EVF on the X2, and many other digital cameras where only the built in EVF is available for eye level shooting I found even f/1.4 lenses would pop into focus far more clearly than using a strictly optical system. It was really just a case of recognising when the fine contrast increased as the image came into focus. With my 50mm Summilux on my Olympus OMD I can see the point of focus far easier than the same lens on my M9, and without focus peaking. Steve Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
StephenPatterson Posted March 21, 2013 Author Share #17 Posted March 21, 2013 Steve, don't get me wrong I'm a big fan of the EVF and think it's a wonderful compliment to the rangefinder. My only complaint as I said above is that I want to lock exposure first and focus last, with as little movement when recomposing as possible. As it stands now the only way to do this and have focus aid is to use full manual metering. It's very difficult to focus the Nocti wide open at 1x. At 5x and 10x it's a joy. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanG Posted March 21, 2013 Share #18 Posted March 21, 2013 To get a histogram in the EVF you have to turn on all the display items, which substantially blocks the view. Also these icons become even more confusing when shooting in portrait. If you don't want all of that info, can't you judge exposure well enough simply by looking at the EVF image? In any case what is displayed in the EVF is the kind of thing that Leica could change in the firmware if necessary... giving you more choices. Plus as you said, a lot of things could be customizable if they want to revisit the firmware to give more control over the user interface. Some of this comes down to trying to make a feature rich modern interface without upsetting some people due to having too many buttons and while retaining the top shutter speed dial and manual aperture control. They did not start with a blank slate and I think this is a learning process for them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
k-hawinkler Posted March 21, 2013 Share #19 Posted March 21, 2013 I think Stephen's preferred way of shooting should also be supported by the M. Why not? Beat's me! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozkar Posted March 21, 2013 Share #20 Posted March 21, 2013 It seems to be an obvious workflow. Obviously it is too obvious for Leica. What seems obvious is that Leica have been handing prototypes over to the wrong testers. Live View and Video were the two big selling points, hyped by Leica since launch, and both are half baked at best. Some very obvious limitations have been raised in a very short time since release. Let's see what the first firmware update brings. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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