AlanJW Posted March 17, 2013 Share #21 Posted March 17, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) Maybe someone can take crack at a profile with an XRite Colorchecker. It is reasonably easy to do. When I have done this in the past (I don't yet have a M240) there are some slight differences among the camera native, the Adobe Standard and the home-built. Or if you think the camera is too warm across the board, adjust in ACR and then save as your default. I think the issue should not be overblown as it is easily correctable - and if it is simply an adjustment, easily baked into the next firmware too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted March 17, 2013 Posted March 17, 2013 Hi AlanJW, Take a look here M 240 White Balance. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
trond Posted March 17, 2013 Share #22 Posted March 17, 2013 Hm... There is something more going on here. In LR, there are two selectable profiles for the M, "Adobe Standard" and "Embedded". Embedded is the profile in the camera DNG provided by Leica. Interestingly, if I change to the embedded profile, the AWB as shot changes to 4850K, while the Adobe Standard "as shot" gives 4600K. The image below is "As shot" with AWB and Embedded profile, on my calibrated monitor it looks completely neutral. The Embedded is very close to the manually adjusted version I made first. I just tried this on a number of images, and the "Embedded" setting gives much more pleasing and neutral images than the "Adobe Standard" profile. It may be that the Adobe Standard is created with a pre-production camera, while the Embeddes is supplied by Leica and is from the production version. In my case it is obvious that the Embedded setting in LR is much better than the Adobe Standard setting, which is the default unless you change it. Anyone that has some insight to how this is put together? Best regards Trond Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/200549-m-240-white-balance/?do=findComment&comment=2274188'>More sharing options...
Fgcm Posted March 17, 2013 Share #23 Posted March 17, 2013 The daylight setting in LR gives 5500K and gives a too warm look. DNG files do NOT record a light temperature, but a blue on green and red on green ratios. These two ratios are converted into a color temperature and tint values by a secret algorithm buried somewhere in the software. You can find detailed specifications of DNG files on Adobe website. In LR4, daylight values are 5400 and -4; overcast are 6500 and -4. In Aperture, daylight values are 5393 and -14; overcast are 6500 and -14. You should save specific presets for all your cameras. Shoot some pics setting WB to each camera preset and than read WB values, than store your preset. It's a matter of 5 minutes and this helps to speed up post processing. If anybody needs, I can send the Aperture presets file. If you trust LR4 or Aperture or C1 presets, you get a totally off WB. Nonetheless I did the same as you: now is snowing and took some snowy pics. I should confirm that overcast/cloudy WB is a bit off. My bet is a little more than 700 k. Maybe 900K. On the other hand, Daylight seems ok (pics from last week) I also compared Aperture, LR4 and C1. Aperture and LR4 give the same colors. I cannot tell the difference. C1 renders weird greens, but reds and blues are ok. It's a great step forward. With M9 the same file processed into the three softwares gave three totally different color rendering. Franco Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fgcm Posted March 17, 2013 Share #24 Posted March 17, 2013 Anyone that has some insight to how this is put together? Trond, I generally use Aperture, so I use LR4 very little. Your clue is very interesting. It's snowing and is very cold, so you gave me an idea to spend my afternoon Franco Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
anupmc Posted March 17, 2013 Share #25 Posted March 17, 2013 Hm...... The image below is "As shot" with AWB and Embedded profile, on my calibrated monitor it looks completely neutral. ... Trond White balance aside... the reds in that picture look out of whack though, no? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_tribble Posted March 17, 2013 Share #26 Posted March 17, 2013 Trond - in my experience, beware Embedded. This is the profile that is NOT recommended for LR in fact - and the reds come out horribly under tungsten. It's the profile I had to use for early testing purposes. Not good news. The Adobe Standard is the one to work with for now in my experience. It still needs improving (let's hope that happens with Lr 4.4 final), but it's the best we have so far... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
trond Posted March 17, 2013 Share #27 Posted March 17, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) Thanks Chris, This is not easy! Yes, the reads are a bit "Velvia" in the Embedded profile, and the Adobe Standard is too warm. A minus 5-600 on the Kelvin setting in LR is more close to neutral. Let´s hope for a production ready profile in the next release of LR. Best regards Trond Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted March 17, 2013 Share #28 Posted March 17, 2013 Aperture and LR4 give the same colors. I cannot tell the difference. C1 renders weird greens, but reds and blues are ok. Franco The M is not yet a supported camera in C1. The results are currently not good. I think the blues are just acceptable but all other colours, especially greens and yellows are a long way off. As C1 is by far my favourite RAW processor, I am not too impressed by this. I know Phase One had a falling out with Leica some years ago but I would have hoped they could have kissed and made up by this time, in the interests of both their pools of customers. Wilson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fgcm Posted March 17, 2013 Share #29 Posted March 17, 2013 I agree with you If C1 had a better color profile I would have used it instead of Aperture with M9 Now, with M240 I'm using Aperture as I know it, because on lack of a good profile in C1 and because I really dislike LR4. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted March 17, 2013 Share #30 Posted March 17, 2013 I really dislike LR4. ......and there was me thinking it was just me Wilson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fgcm Posted March 17, 2013 Share #31 Posted March 17, 2013 After Trond tests for daylight, I tested tungsten preset. The carpet is light grey/silver gray Light is a halogen spot First pic shows in camera preset for tungsten. It's actually too warm. 3168 K, -26 tint Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/200549-m-240-white-balance/?do=findComment&comment=2274397'>More sharing options...
Fgcm Posted March 17, 2013 Share #32 Posted March 17, 2013 This shows auto WB. Is better, but not good. 3023 K and -13 tint Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/200549-m-240-white-balance/?do=findComment&comment=2274399'>More sharing options...
Fgcm Posted March 17, 2013 Share #33 Posted March 17, 2013 This is set on WhiBal card. 2802 K and +2 tint. It's perfect. This is easy to cure in post processing. It's just a matter of changing some presets Franco Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/200549-m-240-white-balance/?do=findComment&comment=2274401'>More sharing options...
jaapv Posted March 17, 2013 Share #34 Posted March 17, 2013 If you are taking a tungsten-lit shot that last correction may be neutral, but you will have lost all rendition of the light as you saw it. It is far too blue to render reality. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fgcm Posted March 17, 2013 Share #35 Posted March 17, 2013 Ok. What about this one: it gives the idea of tungsten, but is more neutral. 3000 K + 3 tint Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/200549-m-240-white-balance/?do=findComment&comment=2274413'>More sharing options...
Rick Posted March 17, 2013 Share #36 Posted March 17, 2013 Moody Blues, Nights In White Satin Lyrics Cold hearted orb That rules the night Removes the colours From our sight Red is gray and Yellow white But we decide Which is right And Which is an Illusion Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fgcm Posted March 17, 2013 Share #37 Posted March 17, 2013 So right! Thank you Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
trond Posted March 17, 2013 Share #38 Posted March 17, 2013 Moody Blues, Nights In White Satin Lyrics Cold hearted orb That rules the night Removes the colours From our sight Red is gray and Yellow white But we decide Which is right And Which is an Illusion Thank you Rick! You are absolutely right, and your comment is one of the most sensible in this discussion! I have come to the conclusion that I really don´t care about accurate colors as long as the image is pleasing and offers something to the viewer. Accurate colors are right all the time, vivid colors are best sometimes, no color (B&W) is most appropriate other times, it all depends...... (Very liberate "translation" from Bob Dylan, substitute color with people) Pardon my less inspiring test shots above, but it was easy just to point the camera the window. Best regards Trond Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest malland Posted March 17, 2013 Share #39 Posted March 17, 2013 Fgcm's examples of changing the white balance are an excellent demonstration of why it makes little sense to try to reach conclusions on the M240's color rendition before having profiles for LR4 or other raw developers that one wants to use. In my view, all the reviews that have been posted so far are premature to the degree that they try to conclude anything on color rendition. On raw developers and editing programs, like some other people, I much prefer the Aperture user interface to that of LR3/LR4. However, when I was shooting with the Ricoh GXR M-Module I concluded that I got substantially better resolution and color rendition from RPP than from LR3 or Aperture 3, although LR3 was better in both resolution and color rendition than Aperture. Now, with LR4 I find that I no longer have an advantage using RPP, and feel that it's worth doing everything in LR4 rather than having to use RPP for raw development and then Aperture for further processing. —Mitch/Potomac, MD Paris au rythme de Basquiat and Other Poems [download link for book project] Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted March 17, 2013 Share #40 Posted March 17, 2013 Should Leica have made more of an effort to get M cameras to Adobe (LR and ACR), Apple (Aperture) and Phase One (Capture One) for the profiles to be made? These RAW developer programs would probably cover 95%+ of M users. After all until we get our RAW developers working properly, the M is just a hunk of very expensive metal and plastic. Wilson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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