jonoslack Posted March 10, 2013 Share #101 Posted March 10, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) Um, I believe the point is to show color accuracy, which means across a spectrum not duotones? You can do that with a variety of vegetables, but not only. Come on, any respectable garden, even if it's a flower garden ... I thought the point was to show that the people couldn't tell which camera the files came from unless they were told Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted March 10, 2013 Posted March 10, 2013 Hi jonoslack, Take a look here Vegetable pictures - Part Deux. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
photomeme Posted March 10, 2013 Share #102 Posted March 10, 2013 I thought the point was to show that the people couldn't tell which camera the files came from unless they were told And the point is that an essentially duotone image, with obvious resolution differences, is not helping with that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkarusJohn Posted March 11, 2013 Share #103 Posted March 11, 2013 If you don't like the images it produces at low ISO, then I can see that's a criticism - but are you basing this view on my DNG files? Or others you've downloaded from the internet? From pre-release cameras too? if so, shame on you. I wouldn't base a decision on anyone else's files but my own, and I'm sure you wouldn't. Umm, I bought my Monochrom based on your files, Jono. I've steadfastly refused to play with another DNG file from you - once bitten twice shy (and a lot poorer for it). Actually, I thought the Monochrom was a daft idea till I started playing with your DNGs. Down here in God's Own, we tend not to get demos to try before we buy. I'm finding the Monochrom an astonishing camera - particularly with the Nocti, and the 90 APO Summicron. It's pretty good with the 75, 50 & 21 Summiluxes, and the 28 Summicron looks good too ... I'll get me coat. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkarusJohn Posted March 11, 2013 Share #104 Posted March 11, 2013 The consensus seems to be (from the posted images), that as a package, the M is all round a step up from the M9 (a big step according to some, and not so big for those wanting to keep their M9s). Steve Huff says (sorry, couldn't resist): As for the M9/ME/M9P vs the new M, well, the CMOS in the new M easily beats the M9/ME sensor in high ISO, dynamic range, color and overall richness of file. Now, I'm just an M9-P/Monochrom user, with lenses that I'm well short of fully exploiting. I'm also not a professional photographer (I'm not convinced this means much), and I'm unpublished (I think - never tried). I haven't taken thousands and thousands of images, because I still think like a Kodachrome photographer (how much?). So, for me, I tend to think a lot before raising the camera to my eye, and I try to be critical of what I get. Looking at the images posted so far, I'm not seeing anything that blows my socks off (nowhere near what I'm finding with the Monochrom). Maybe it's just looking at web jpgs, but any difference in what's shown so far could easily be lost in poor post-processing. Now, I'm not knocking the M camera, nor am I questioning those wanting to buy it. But, for me, less features retains the pure focus on the basics - focus, framing, exposure. And what comes out, for me, is still astonishingly good, when I get it right. Cheers John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonoslack Posted March 11, 2013 Share #105 Posted March 11, 2013 Umm, I bought my Monochrom based on your files, Jono. I've steadfastly refused to play with another DNG file from you - once bitten twice shy (and a lot poorer for it). Actually, I thought the Monochrom was a daft idea till I started playing with your DNGs. Down here in God's Own, we tend not to get demos to try before we buy. I'm finding the Monochrom an astonishing camera - particularly with the Nocti, and the 90 APO Summicron. It's pretty good with the 75, 50 & 21 Summiluxes, and the 28 Summicron looks good too ... I'll get me coat. HI John Well, perhaps I was being a little disingenuous - but the guy is a professional, with front page magazine and newspaper coverage. I thought he should probably get hold of a camera and test it himself rather than relying on pre-production DNG files from someone like me. I thought the Monochrom exercise was a really good one (releasing one DNG at a time and then concentrating on discussion about it). I'd have liked to do the same with the M, but the trouble was that (unlike the MM) the files were not 'finished' until just before shipping (I still don't have a camera with final firmware). I'm glad you found it helpful, and that you like the camera (phew). On the other hand, I'm interested that you haven't found the M files impressive - I was really pleased with the images I linked to the write-up; of course they were processed, but only in the same way I'd have processed the M9 files. Of course, they were only jpg files. All the best Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
algrove Posted March 11, 2013 Share #106 Posted March 11, 2013 Looking at the images posted so far, I'm not seeing anything that blows my socks off (nowhere near what I'm finding with the Monochrom). Maybe it's just looking at web jpgs, but any difference in what's shown so far could easily be lost in poor post-processing. Cheers John Like I have said elsewhere we could all get along fine with a 6MP camera and be done with it if all we do is post jpegs online. So going from 18 to 24MP is not a huge difference when you get up into these kinds of MP. I print so having more than 6MP interests me, but even then I know 6MP images make some nice 13x19 prints. I got the M for its versatility over the M9 and, as others have expressed, it will take us a little time to massage the files into what we like and want after having done that with the M9 for all these years. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanJW Posted March 11, 2013 Share #107 Posted March 11, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) I have never seen so many negative reviews from people who not only do not have an M but have no intention of getting one. Some sort of assertion of superior intellect or something like that. If the DNGs posted and the new features don't impress you enough to buy an M then just don't buy one. So far there are few who think the M is inferior in IQ to the M9, so the debate is mostly over whether there is enough of an improvement to warrant a purchase. For my part, if it was the same M9 quality plus the other features, that is enough for me, given my bad eyes and desire occasionally to use a longer lens or do a macro without a DSLR. I don't think it is irrational for anyone to stick with an M9 (or of course MM, if that is what you like) but please don't imply that those of us who actually want the new features are not acting in an equally rational manner. M9 and M and MM users can and should peacefully coexist. Now let's get out there are shoot more vegetables or fruits or cats, or resolution charts -- or, perish the thought, something else. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marknorton Posted March 11, 2013 Share #108 Posted March 11, 2013 Yes, isn't it called trolling? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thighslapper Posted March 11, 2013 Share #109 Posted March 11, 2013 On the other hand, I'm interested that you haven't found the M files impressive - I was really pleased with the images I linked to the write-up; of course they were processed, but only in the same way I'd have processed the M9 files. Of course, they were only jpg files. yes.... I'm a bit surprised at the significant number of negative responses...... those of us that have an M seem generally very pleased with the image quality .... and I've yet to see anyone posting that they have wasted their money and the camera is on ebay...... Leica have presumably deliberately tried to keep the Leica M9 look.... so it's entirely predictable that there will be no earth shattering difference that makes people sit up and take notice.......... I'm VERY happy with an M and an MM. The trusty M9 will stay as a back up and all the residual Nikon gear I kept 'just in case' is going on ebay...... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkarusJohn Posted March 12, 2013 Share #110 Posted March 12, 2013 HI John ... I'm glad you found it helpful, and that you like the camera (phew). On the other hand, I'm interested that you haven't found the M files impressive ... Yes, releasing the Monochrom DNG files one at a time was inspired. It gave us all the opportunity to play with them and to see what we could do. I enjoyed that, and it convinced me that I would enjoy the Monochrom. I haven't given the M files the same treatment, partly because I don't want to move on from my M9-P, and also because when I look at the web-sized jpegs, I don't see enough of a difference that I have the skills to exploit it. I have explicitly said that this is simply a reflection of my skills and the number of photos I take. I'm sure in the right hands, the M will be fantastic - I'm just saying at this stage, it's not for me. I have hardly touched my M9-P since I got the Monochrom. I am, truly, very happy for everyone getting out there and enjoying their new cameras. I'm in the same boat, only my new cameras are perhaps not so "new". Cheers John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted March 12, 2013 Author Share #111 Posted March 12, 2013 ...and all the residual Nikon gear I kept 'just in case' is going on ebay...... I just realized that the introduction of the M is not going to cause many DSLR shooter to buy the M. Although, it is going to cause a whole bunch of Leica shooters to drop DSLRs. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanJW Posted March 12, 2013 Share #112 Posted March 12, 2013 I just realized that the introduction of the M is not going to cause many DSLR shooter to buy the M. Although, it is going to cause a whole bunch of Leica shooters to drop DSLRs. I am hesitant to just drop my DSLR (Nikon D800E) but certainly agree with you that there are things that the M can do that were once impossible with a rangefinder camera. There are several things that I think remain different and work in favor of DSLR (please don't misinterpret; my preference is for Leica but I do think there are different tools for different tasks): (1) autofocus; for sports and things like quick moving children, autofocus is better for me; I recognize that there are people who are very quick and accurate with a RF but I am not one of them; in fact one reason I like RF is because it forces me into a more deliberate way of working; that does not work for me for all subjects (2) easy flash integration; both Canon and Nikon flash systems are far more sophisticated and easier to use than Leica's (my opinion) (3) array of longer lenses and teleconvertors (remains to be seen whether the Nikon to M and R to M adapters will be a workaround; IMHO the jury os still out on this). (4) long exposures (more than 60 seconds) for astro and other work not feasible on M (5) Intervalometers are available for DSLR (very useful for star trails) (6) telescope adapters are easy to find for Nikon and Canon; not so for M; maybe that will change with live view available; need to have a way to focus. I did not mention the 36mp in the Nikon as an advantage. For most things it is irrelevant; when going very long however, it allows for cropping down to DX size, which increases reach by 1.5X, and for wildlife is useful. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick_S Posted March 13, 2013 Share #113 Posted March 13, 2013 (6) telescope adapters are easy to find for Nikon and Canon; not so for M; maybe that Would a T2 mount telescope adapter not do the job? finding a T2 to M-mount solution should not be a problem (e.g., there is one coming up on Amazon at the moment). Nick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted March 13, 2013 Share #114 Posted March 13, 2013 I don't expect to drop the 5D i use with my R lenses as despite some statements that 30 fps can do the job, i would be much surprised if the M240+EVF combo is able to compete for shooting moving subjects. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanJW Posted March 13, 2013 Share #115 Posted March 13, 2013 Would a T2 mount telescope adapter not do the job? finding a T2 to M-mount solution should not be a problem (e.g., there is one coming up on Amazon at the moment). Nick Thanks. Just found it and will order one. But I'm still not likely to abandon the Nikon completely. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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