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Vegetable pictures - Part Deux


Rick

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More photos of vegetables from a pre-production beta-firmware M from the vegetable photographer himself are now available! He compares the beta-M to finished production RX1' date=' Fuji X-Pro 1 and Sigma DP2 Merrill. Don't mis it![/quote']

 

Sweet thanks for the heads up! I've been waiting to see how your RX1 does in the noise department, by looking at the fine grain as the curvature of the onions and green peppers disappear into shadow.

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Can someone explain something? I haven't read Sean's reviews but as I understand it, he's somewhat disappointed with the camera. This surprises me as I also believe he bangs on endlessly about how he was involved in the definition, development and evaluation of the camera, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

 

So Sean, where precisely did you screw up?

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More photos of vegetables from a pre-production beta-firmware M from the vegetable photographer himself are now available! He compares the beta-M to finished production RX1, Fuji X-Pro 1 and Sigma DP2 Merrill. Don't mis it!

 

Rick, would you have been happier if Reid had been unjustifiaby positive about the M240 instead of being objective? Sounds like you have a touch of sour grapes (or should it be sour vegetables), Judging by recent posts on this forum, Reid is not alone in being dissapointed in the M240 (http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-m9-forum/275111-little-disappointed.html). Is it too late to cancel your M240 order, Rick?;)

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Can someone explain something? I haven't read Sean's reviews but as I understand it, he's somewhat disappointed with the camera. This surprises me as I also believe he bangs on endlessly about how he was involved in the definition, development and evaluation of the camera, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

 

So Sean, where precisely did you screw up?

 

I subscribe to ReidReviews. He does state he had input into the M240's development, so I was surprised at the outcome of his MM vs. M9 vs. M240 comparison. The M240 was only marginally better than the M9 at base iso, whilst the M240 pulled ahead at higher iso's due to having less noise. Reid did not write "I'm dissapointed at M240's performance", but he wasnt too enthusiastic about it either. I was expecting someone with an input into the M240 to be less objective than Reid was. I have renewed my subscription to Reid's site following the aforementioned review.

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While the M had slightly higher resolution than the RX1 at low ISO, the Sigma trounced them both. At high ISO the RX1 trounced the M and the Sigma. One might say it was a stir fry of sorts and some vegetables were better than others but they all were fried! :) :)

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Rick, would you have been happier if Reid had been unjustifiaby positive about the M240 instead of being objective? Sounds like you have a touch of sour grapes (or should it be sour vegetables), Judging by recent posts on this forum, Reid is not alone in being dissapointed in the M240 (http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-m9-forum/275111-little-disappointed.html). Is it too late to cancel your M240 order, Rick?;)

 

Hi Andy,

 

Doesn't have anything to do with sour anything. I actually think the M reviews are about bang on to what I expected (Reid's too). I hoped for a little better ISO, like others, I'm sure. But, the relationship between the M and other camera's ISO performance has been a technological moving target. ISO performance across the brands has steadily improved while Leica has been trying to bring this camera to market.

 

I think Leica would have been in the running with the very front of the pack if they had brought the M to market a year ago as we hoped in May 2012. This is just a reality, it doesn't make me any less enthused about the M or mean I'm not looking forward to it. The camera is fine.

 

I think that what you describe as my sour grapes is more about the early reviews themselves. Without writing a long critique about Reid Reviews, I don't care about how cameras take pictures of vegetables at different ISOs. I think it is silly. I don't care about a early review of a beta version of the camera with no LR support (Reid Reviews - Leica part II). I think it is all a little premature.

 

Of course, none of this matters in the grand perspective of life and everything. The findings are still somewhat interesting and I think most here respect and like the site a lot. I just find it all silly. And, as before, I'm just killing time waiting for my M - so ignore me if you don't find me as amusing as I think I am.:)

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This surprises me as I also believe he bangs on endlessly about how he was involved in the definition, development and evaluation of the camera, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

 

So Sean, where precisely did you screw up?

 

I don't think he does any such thing. He doesn't design it but perhaps gives feedback. Feedback can't change something that is unexciting when balanced against expectations.

 

And it is the expectations that are now being tested, those that said Leica should be ambitious, and those that wanted something the same but 'better'. As I see it many people, including Sean, might be more positive over a more ambitious camera that is flawed rather than a safe and unexciting gradual improvement.

 

Steve

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A couple of things are evident to me from this testing. Unless you require RF Manual focusing and interchangeable lenses, you can do better on the low end with three DPxMs and better on the high ISO end with the RX1 all for far less money. In fact you could have all four cameras for less than the M. The EVF won't compete with the EVF on the RX1 or the EM5 and the long shutter blcak out and shaky magnified image for focusing makes it less than a pleasure as anyone that has tried the older generation EVFs can attest. The M does not appear to offer the leap in IQ that the M9 did at its introduction; however, it is getting harder and harder to separate cameras by IQ as performance improves on the lowest models.

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A couple of things are evident to me from this testing. Unless you require RF Manual focusing and interchangeable lenses' date=' you can do better on the low end with three DPxMs and better on the high ISO end with the RX1 all for far less money. In fact you could have all four cameras for less than the M. The EVF won't compete with the EVF on the RX1 or the EM5 and the long shutter blcak out and shaky magnified image for focusing makes it less than a pleasure as anyone that has tried the older generation EVFs can attest. The M does not appear to offer the leap in IQ that the M9 did at its introduction; however, it is getting harder and harder to separate cameras by IQ as performance improves on the lowest models.[/quote']

 

Maybe if you only shoot high ISO at 35mm!

 

The M is the best all around camera still. I wouldn't touch a Sigma imagine support for processing in 10 years.

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I do think these comparisons with fixed lens cameras are ridiculous. They are different cameras for different purposes. The Sony RX-1 supports what range of focal lengths, precisely?

 

Edit: My M will support my lenses from 14 to 800mm. Will this much-vaunted Sony do that?

Edited by marknorton
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I do think these comparisons with fixed lens cameras are ridiculous. They are different cameras for different purposes. The Sony RX-1 supports what range of focal lengths, precisely?

 

Edit: My M will support my lenses from 14 to 800mm. Will this much-vaunted Sony do that?

 

No, but a D800E will do that and more and weigh less but I wouldn't want to have to carry either set around. :D

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More photos of vegetables from a pre-production beta-firmware M from the vegetable photographer himself are now available! He compares the beta-M to finished production RX1, Fuji X-Pro 1 and Sigma DP2 Merrill. Don't mis it!

 

actually, were can I find the photos? were are they posted?

 

many thanks

 

Thomas

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I have to say that studio tests of veggies are kind of limiting, no? They don't even show things like skin tone differences (and I'd be hard pressed to look at a banana and say wow--that shade of green-yellow must be wrong!)

 

I think my subscription has expired, and I'm loathe at this point to renew it just to read the review, TBH (nothing against Sean, but I want a 240 in my hands to see if its got the goods or not--no amount of leaf or veggie shots is going to tell me that).

 

IOW, quite apart from its charms as a Leica rangefinder (for some of us that's nearly enough), I suspect all the cameras performed similarly (from what I can tell) because, well, controlled light conditions for vegetables are just not that challenging.

 

Technology is coming along. Every reasonable camera can take satisfying pictures of well-lit apples :)

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