IWC Doppel Posted March 3, 2013 Share #1 Posted March 3, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) Anyone prepared to do a back to back ? So far the images I have seen look 25% M9 and 75% Nikon/Canon in rendering style but with incredible sharpness. That Fuji Velvia potential for richness and vibrancy of the M9 seems to have gone from the images I have seen so far. Plus a number look quite 2D I suspect my initial concern about the CMOS look will not go away Sorry to be a party pooper..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted March 3, 2013 Posted March 3, 2013 Hi IWC Doppel, Take a look here M9 and M comparisons. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
UliWer Posted March 3, 2013 Share #2 Posted March 3, 2013 Well, if you don't mind the amount to pay, you might look at Sean Reid's first essay comparing the M 240 and the M9. He as announced a review when he get's hold of a M 240 with production standard and you can expect that he'll show many more detailed comparisons. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikasmg Posted March 3, 2013 Share #3 Posted March 3, 2013 Anyone prepared to do a back to back ? So far the images I have seen look 25% M9 and 75% Nikon/Canon in rendering style but with incredible sharpness. That Fuji Velvia potential for richness and vibrancy of the M9 seems to have gone from the images I have seen so far. Plus a number look quite 2D I suspect my initial concern about the CMOS look will not go away Sorry to be a party pooper..... I just responded to another query about shutter noise with a reference to Ming Thien's review. He also has some interesting comments regarding image quality compared to an M9 as well as Nikon D800. The 2013 Leica M Typ 240 – Ming Thein | Photographer Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
macjonny1 Posted March 3, 2013 Share #4 Posted March 3, 2013 Well' date=' if you don't mind the amount to pay, you might look at Sean Reid's first essay comparing the M 240 and the M9. He as announced a review when he get's hold of a M 240 with production standard and you can expect that he'll show many more detailed comparisons.[/quote'] Hope his veggies don't spoil in the meantime! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IWC Doppel Posted March 3, 2013 Author Share #5 Posted March 3, 2013 Well, if you don't mind the amount to pay, you might look at Sean Reid's first essay comparing the M 240 and the M9. He as announced a review when he get's hold of a M 240 with production standard and you can expect that he'll show many more detailed comparisons. I did subscribe, but with only a few things on his site of interest now I didn't renew, I'd rather have a nice bottle of wine and wait to be honest. I think renewal fees should be a lot less tbh.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dannybuoy Posted March 3, 2013 Share #6 Posted March 3, 2013 Very much looking forward to a proper side by side. Just taken my first photos today since reading all the coverage yesterday. Last week I was working out which of my Canon gear I can release to cover the upgrade cost and now I'm not so sure. The sample images I've seen so far have been ok bit remind me far too much of the output from my 5Dmk2 and precisely why I fell in love with the M9's CCD rendering. The photos I took today with my 50 Lux Asph reminded me how brilliant the Kodak sensor is. Until is see some really well shot side by sides I can't really make any decisions. At the moment I'm worried I'll lose a lot of that (but will gain a few stops in ISO and a quieter shutter of course). This is a tough call at the moment. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest WPalank Posted March 3, 2013 Share #7 Posted March 3, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) Anyone prepared to do a back to back ? So far the images I have seen look 25% M9 and 75% Nikon/Canon in rendering style but with incredible sharpness. That Fuji Velvia potential for richness and vibrancy of the M9 seems to have gone from the images I have seen so far. Plus a number look quite 2D I suspect my initial concern about the CMOS look will not go away Sorry to be a party pooper..... Someone in another thread is complaining the images are too vibrant?! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
theno23 Posted March 3, 2013 Share #8 Posted March 3, 2013 Anyone prepared to do a back to back ? So far the images I have seen look 25% M9 and 75% Nikon/Canon in rendering style but with incredible sharpness. That Fuji Velvia potential for richness and vibrancy of the M9 seems to have gone from the images I have seen so far. Plus a number look quite 2D I suspect my initial concern about the CMOS look will not go away Sorry to be a party pooper..... They feel a lot like M9 files to process (with the Lightroom 4.4 release candidate), pretty much the same colour palette, and response curve. I'd have to do a direct comparison to be sure though. - Steve Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
UliWer Posted March 3, 2013 Share #9 Posted March 3, 2013 ...I'd rather have a nice bottle of wine and wait to be honest. ... Good idea. Though why did you start the thread then? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanJW Posted March 3, 2013 Share #10 Posted March 3, 2013 To IWC Doppel: Frankly, if "only" 25% of my images had the "Leica look" and the other 75% were as good as (but not better than) my Nikon, all with "incredible sharpness", I would think this camera would be a great hit simply for its size, the ability to use long lenses, and the apparently malleability of the files. You can make any film look you would like in post processing. (I don't care about video at all). The reviews from those who have used both seem to indicate that contrary to your fears, Leica has done quite well on the CMOS issue in terms of the look of the files. These were personal opinions, but I do respect Jono and Chris and Sean because they have track records of impartiality. How you or I or anyone else will fare with an M vs. and M9 is a more personal issue and subject to many variations of shooting style, lenses, subject matter, and post processing workflow. Maybe the camera is not for everybody but I like to use the best available equipment so there is no excuse for my frequent failures other than myself. So I've got my order in and hopefully will have one soon. If you don't think the M can produce better files for you than your M9, nobody is making you buy one, and I for one, won't criticize anyone who chooses to stay put with a M9 (mine will go to backup duty). My point is IMHO there is no objective way to compare M and M9 images, so trying to "measure" as a "logical" way to decide whether to buy is a form of rationalization of a predetermined decision to buy -- or not buy. Both decisions, if you ask me, are at least partly based on individual subjectivity (if not emotion), and by the way there is nothing wrong with that, but let's be honest about what we are talking about. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BerndReini Posted March 4, 2013 Share #11 Posted March 4, 2013 I hate to be that guy, but I will just come out and say it: I dare anyone here to tell me the difference between ten different 13x19 prints made with the M9, the 5DII, the new M, the MM, the M8. It really depends all on the lenses and processing, and I am a huge Leica fan. The CCD vs. CMOS debate is just blown out of proportion. The M9 creates fairly contrasty files, which I then flatten in post before I start working on them. It seems like the new M "creates" somewhat flatter files as a starting point, which I would probably give a little more contrast in post. I'm more worried about the banding issue since I do like to lift shadows quite a bit. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
macjonny1 Posted March 4, 2013 Share #12 Posted March 4, 2013 I hate to be that guy' date=' but I will just come out and say it: I dare anyone here to tell me the difference between ten different 13x19 prints made with the M9, the 5DII, the new M, the MM, the M8. It really depends all on the lenses and processing, and I am a huge Leica fan. The CCD vs. CMOS debate is just blown out of proportion. The M9 creates fairly contrasty files, which I then flatten in post before I start working on them. It seems like the new M "creates" somewhat flatter files as a starting point, which I would probably give a little more contrast in post. I'm more worried about the banding issue since I do like to lift shadows quite a bit.[/quote'] That's why I shoot with a rangefinder because I like rangefinders! For decades Leica had the same exact "sensor" (film) as everyone else, but what set it apart was the style of shooting and quality of the lenses and camera. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted March 4, 2013 Share #13 Posted March 4, 2013 The CCD vs CMos argument is not just blown out of proportion, it is largely irrelevant imo. The design of the filter array in front of the sensor and the firmware processing makes the output look the way it does, not to mention the postprocesssing by the photographer. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mimaki Posted March 4, 2013 Share #14 Posted March 4, 2013 That's why I shoot with a rangefinder because I like rangefinders! For decades Leica had the same exact "sensor" (film) as everyone else, but what set it apart was the style of shooting and quality of the lenses and camera. I agree, its all about the rangefinder... lovely way to shoot. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
photomeme Posted March 4, 2013 Share #15 Posted March 4, 2013 The CCD vs CMos argument is not just blown out of proportion, it is largely irrelevant imo. The design of the filter array in front of the sensor and the firmware processing makes the output look the way it does, not to mention the postprocesssing by the photographer. Uh ... no. Expect a significant change in color rendering, despite Leica efforts to 'minimize' them. CCD -> CMOS has been a difficult transition for every brand, and for this European sensor manufacturer, the M's sensor is its first CMOS effort for a professional camera. Did they get it right and match the Nikon / Sony / Canon CMOS performance on the first try? And on top of that, construct a "look" other CMOS sensors have never achieved in practice? Well, maybe, but likely no. The last generation CCD cameras from Nikon still out perform the entire Nikon CMOS line at base ISO, in my view. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BerndReini Posted March 4, 2013 Share #16 Posted March 4, 2013 The good thing is that all the CCD fans will be able to pick up a used M9 for a very good price very soon. They can probably have mine as soon as I get my M. I'm still hanging on to one CCD sensor, the one in my P25 back. It doesn't get any better as long as you don't go beyond ISO 50. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoe Posted March 4, 2013 Share #17 Posted March 4, 2013 What has me scratching my head is I read that the cmos sensor results in a more creamy image so would that mean that it would favor a cron lens rather than a lux which might be overkill? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BerndReini Posted March 4, 2013 Share #18 Posted March 4, 2013 Yup, 50 cron APO instead of 50lux non-aspherical. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikasmg Posted March 4, 2013 Share #19 Posted March 4, 2013 It's the photographer that matters! One of my partners (in an architectural firm) recently bought a Nex-7 and asked another partner what exquipment he should buy to make his pictures "as good as hers". After some emails back and forth I spoke up and offered the suggestion "You already have a very good tool. Just hone your skills." He took it with good grace :-) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IWC Doppel Posted March 4, 2013 Author Share #20 Posted March 4, 2013 Good idea. Though why did you start the thread then? Because I'm hoping to have both and not pay Mr Reid $30 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.