Guest guy_mancuso Posted March 28, 2007 Share #41 Â Posted March 28, 2007 Advertisement (gone after registration) Hank you make some good points and Scott you touched on something that I said earlier about the budget lenses which was like 15F4,28.28,50 cron,75 2.8 and a 90 2.8 new lenses for the budget minded and also more designed for the 1.33 or digitar lens. Now Hank hit a point that we need to look at. Okay we all have our M8's in hand and for the last couple months of ownership on this board which i consider the best on the M8, we really have heard very little whining about the 1.33crop factor AFTER you bought the camera. This happened to me going from the 1dsMKII to the DMR i was dead in the wool FF guy and after the DMR i forgot all about it once you got used to working like that. Now honestly many of us here were upset at first about the M8 crop factor, i will bet many of us have just let that one fall to the back burner for a very slow simmer. So why not make two series of lenses the slow budget ones like the 28mm 2.8 which works very nice on the M8 and acceptable on FF so if a buyer today bought this series for the M8 and still used film on occasion he would be perfectly happy and call this the digitar series that is more optimized for the crop factor, this would save design time and costs and expensive glass kind of stuff. Than they still make what we have today the fast FF lenses like the 50 lux, 28 cron and bring out a fast 24 f2 and maybe one or two more. Â I think there is room in the market for 2 different type of lens designs and for different types of owners. Now maybe you would get some cross over on like a 15 F4 but if demand was there they could still make a 15 2.8 for the more discerning user that money is less of a issue but performence is paramount. Â I honestly don't think we will see FF anymore but that is my opinion on it becuase look at the sales going on and we are all pretty happy about the M8 and we have accepted for the most part the crop factor. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted March 28, 2007 Posted March 28, 2007 Hi Guest guy_mancuso, Take a look here New lenses for the M?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
mitchell Posted March 28, 2007 Share #42 Â Posted March 28, 2007 What about lenses specifically for the M8 sensor format? Â Most of us are well satisfied with M8 image quality. We could have savings on weight, size, and expense. Â And, Leica could convince us we had to get all new lenses. !:^) Â Best, Â Mitchell Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
egibaud Posted March 28, 2007 Share #43  Posted March 28, 2007 The bespectacled 135 mm Elmarit works nicely on the M8 as it uses the 90 mm frame – but it is of course very heavy and not quite modern optically. So, goggles on the Apo-Telyt, please! The old man from the Age of the 135  I've tested it with Artemio. Have you noticed that the photo is actually a LOT larger than what the viewer frame shows, about the tickness of 5 frame line larger. With the spectable on, focusing is quite easy, if you add the X 1.25 you feel like focusing a 35mm :-) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
egibaud Posted March 28, 2007 Share #44  Posted March 28, 2007 I'd like a BI Elmar  35 - 75  or  28 - 50  If Leica makes it, they own me royalties for the name Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lars_bergquist Posted March 28, 2007 Author Share #45  Posted March 28, 2007 Eric – regarding the actual image of the 135 Elmar being bigger than the finder frame, that is of course the case with all lenses. To some extent, this is a necessity as the image reproduction ratio changes when you focus. The German name for the phenomenon is Bildfeldschwund; is there an English equivalent? I and many other people do however feel that Leica have gone overboard on this with the M8.  The old man from the Age of the Brilliant Finder Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hankg Posted March 28, 2007 Share #46 Â Posted March 28, 2007 i consider the best on the M8, we really have heard very little whining about the 1.33crop factor AFTER you bought the camera. This happened to me going from the 1dsMKII to the DMR i was dead in the wool FF guy and after the DMR i forgot all about it once you got used to working like that. Â I think a good part of the resistance to made for 1.33 lenses is the attitude that the M8 is not a 'real' M because of the crop factor. That it's just a stop gap measure until Leica can deliver the holy grail: a full frame M that sounds and acts identical to it's film counterpart. Â Well, I can't make images with camera's that don't exist and I can't sell images made with camera's that don't exist. 1.33 is what we have got and what I paid for and what we are likely to have for the foreseeable future. I'll leave the arguments of what the M8 should have been to the online guardians all things Leica. Give me glass that optimizes the performance of the system I bought and paid for and am using now, not compromised and or price inflated for some system that does not exist. Â And if by some miracle of technological innovation we get a full frame M say 5 years from now? So what. Users won't be throwing their M8's in the trash. I bought my Canon 1Ds new and my clients where very happy with the images it produced. After the MKII made my 1Ds 'obsolete', my clients where still just as happy with the images my now obsolete 1Ds produced and last month I sold the camera to someone for a still significant wad of cash and I'm sure they will put the camera to more years of good use. Â So whether you are a dedicated amatuer or a professional you can certainly get your money's worth out of the likely life span of a 1.33 crop lens combined with the M8. Again most lenses will be OK for both film and digital but we won't have the maximum out of the M8 (in the same way as you can with a film M) without one fast and wide made for digital lens. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
frc Posted March 28, 2007 Share #47 Â Posted March 28, 2007 Advertisement (gone after registration) Duocron or Duolux 35-50. No royalties required, a free lens will do. In chrome! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Olof Posted March 28, 2007 Share #48  Posted March 28, 2007 For the most part true but film users have a f/1.4 35 and 50, and a f/2 28. Digital users do not and won't if the lens has to accommodate 24 x 36. If they did produce a 28/1.4 the size and price would be absurd unless it was built for the smaller format. I would not want to pay double and have a monster size so the lens can be used on film camera's I don't own or use. I think that as much as possible the lens line should accomadate both formats. Right now it is heavily skewed to film because the digital RF is new. There is room however for one fast 'wide' (not really wide on the M8) to bring the M8 to parity with the film M's.  I think that the existing lens range, really has all what you NEED (may be you WANT more but thats notthe question). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Concorde-SST Posted March 28, 2007 Share #49  Posted March 28, 2007 Steve, this is high on my ‘wanted’ list. The present WATE and Frankenfinder combo is a monstrosity. Let’s face it (or rather, let Leica face it): any superwide lens is an occasional lens, not a central piece of equipment. So, it should be handy and simple to use. In this case, Leica seem to have contracted the dreaded Zeiss Syndrome: Zo vee haff a problem? Our Herr Doktors in white coats know how to fix it once and for all and vee vill haff a Final Solution. Or for those of you who read German: Warum einfach wenn es kann so schön kompliziert sein?  Hello Old Anastigmat guy,  I´m from Germany - it must be this" Warum einfach, wenn es so schön kompliziert sein kann?"  or  "Warum einfach, wenn es auch kompliziert geht?"  I agree, would love to have a 16mm prime Summilux or Elmarit (f 2.8 or f4)  best,  Concorde-SST Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
egibaud Posted March 28, 2007 Share #50 Â Posted March 28, 2007 Duocron or Duolux 35-50.No royalties required, a free lens will do. In chrome! LOL Â is it technically possible to fit something with a wider gap as I suggested like 35 - 75 or 28 - 50 ? Â Eric Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hankg Posted March 28, 2007 Share #51 Â Posted March 28, 2007 I think that the existing lens range, really has all what you NEED (may be you WANT more but thats notthe question). Â Only if you think what has been available to film users in the way of lens selection in the most used focal lengths is not needed by digital users. Sure one can make do with 2.8 but Leica's claim to fame is in the territory of F/2 - 1.4 an area not available to digital users in the focal lengths they use most. Would film users be content if Leica discontinued all the faster then 2.8 28's and 35's. Would you say then it's a question of what you want versus what you need? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddawn Posted March 29, 2007 Share #52  Posted March 29, 2007 I would add this to Steve’ message: It is easy to dream of wondrously speedy lenses, but … If you would like a 16 mm 2.8, look at the current Zeiss lens! Even if designed by Leica, it would be a Noctilux-size, Noctilux-weight and Noctilux-priced aberration. I want something I can stash in a corner of my camera bag, and f:4 would be all right with me. In fact all I want beyond the current CV lens is a codeable M mount, rangefinder coupling and a filter thread. Period. As things stand now, this is rerally a prime (!) business opportunity for Mr Kobayashi.  It's coming in Aprli. The new Color-Skopar F4.0 / 21mm M-Mount, with full rangefinder coupling. Plus, the new Color-Skopar F4.0 / 25mm M-Mount, also rangefinder coupled.  Well ok there are not codeable in the Leica sense, but I'm sure there are creative ways around that Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
carstenw Posted March 29, 2007 Share #53  Posted March 29, 2007 I thought the 21/4 on the Voigtländer website was already coupled. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lars_bergquist Posted March 29, 2007 Author Share #54  Posted March 29, 2007 It's coming in Aprli. The new Color-Skopar F4.0 / 21mm M-Mount, with full rangefinder coupling. Plus, the new Color-Skopar F4.0 / 25mm M-Mount, also rangefinder coupled. Well ok there are not codeable in the Leica sense, but I'm sure there are creative ways around that  I already have a codeable and coupled 21 mm f:2.8 and it says 'LEICA' on the front ring. What I want is a 15 or 16 mm lens that's stashable, coupled and codeable.  The old man from the Age of the Super-Angulon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlesphoto99 Posted March 29, 2007 Share #55 Â Posted March 29, 2007 I'll take an "affordable" 18 f4 (or 2.8). I do miss my 24 being a 24 and I really don't foresee the WATE in my life. Â Okay, a 21 f2 would be nice as well - digital only I would suspect. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted March 29, 2007 Share #56  Posted March 29, 2007 I thought the 21/4 on the Voigtländer website was already coupled.  It is, only the 12, 15 and 25 ones aren't as far as I know.  Steve Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
carstenw Posted March 29, 2007 Share #57  Posted March 29, 2007 So, what is improved about the coming Voigtländer 21/4? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fotografr Posted March 29, 2007 Share #58 Â Posted March 29, 2007 I'd love to see Leica introduce new lenses with IR filtering built-in. Â Â I'll bet someone at Leica just slapped his forehead and said, "Now why didn't I think of that?!?" Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted March 29, 2007 Share #59  Posted March 29, 2007 Steve, this is high on my ‘wanted’ list. The present WATE and Frankenfinder combo is a monstrosity. Let’s face it (or rather, let Leica face it): any superwide lens is an occasional lens, not a central piece of equipment. So, it should be handy and simple to use. In this case, Leica seem to have contracted the dreaded Zeiss Syndrome: Zo vee haff a problem? Our Herr Doktors in white coats know how to fix it once and for all and vee vill haff a Final Solution. Or for those of you who read German: Warum einfach wenn es kann so schön kompliziert sein?  Hello Old Anastigmat guy,  I´m from Germany - it must be this" Warum einfach, wenn es so schön kompliziert sein kann?"  or  "Warum einfach, wenn es auch kompliziert geht?"  I agree, would love to have a 16mm prime Summilux or Elmarit (f 2.8 or f4)  best,  Concorde-SST Oder: Es geht auch anders . aber so geht's auch... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
carstenw Posted March 29, 2007 Share #60 Â Posted March 29, 2007 I'll bet someone at Leica just slapped his forehead and said, "Now why didn't I think of that?!?" Brent, it has come up before, but it is also a compromise. You must identify a lens element where the rays go very straight through, because for film use, it must not interfere. You can also forget about an IR camera if you use such lenses. Personally I find the idea attractive, but I am not sure about Leica's engineers. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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