M8.2 investment??

[Jeff S]

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And if you get an upgraded M8 (M8u), check to see if it has been partially or fully upgraded (frame lines, sapphire screen and shutter were separately offered). The shutter change limits exposure to 1/4000 rather than 1/8000 on the M8; same with the M8.2. The M8.2 also has a different cover, paint finish, black dot (on black camera), etc.

 

I prefer the M8.2 as a better sorted camera; its later release better ensured that any bugs were sorted IMO (coffee stain notwithstanding), although many have been perfectly happy with their reliable M8s.

 

Jeff

[Timmyjoe]

The M8 I was looking at fell through, as the certified Leica dealer that was selling it, after listing it in mint condition, when I asked them to shoot a jpg from the camera so I could run the EXIF data and figure out how many shutter actuations it had, they couldn't get it to fire up. The serial number put it in the batch with the bad transistor, so I guess the transistor "went" on it. So that's no longer an option.

 

The other dealer still has the M8.2 though.

[Erik Gunst Lund]

A good choice for some.

 

The OP, however, said he wants a back-up, which suggests he doesn't necessarily want to carry two cameras around, although that's still possible.

 

Each person of course has different needs and preferences. I personally don't need high ISO, don't shoot extremely wide, nor print extremely big. Within that context, I prefer 2 M8.2s for some of the following reasons that I've stated elsewhere, along with some additional ones based on your suggestion...

 

• Better b/w than M9
  
• Allows flexible workflow, without need to carry extra color filters as with MM
  
• No need to carry two cameras, yet ready for color or b/w; any camera better than none
  
• Better frame lines for equivalent full frame FOV (as lct says)
  
• 2m frame lines
  
• Sapphire screen standard
  
• Chrome option standard
  
• Top display
  
• No M9 issues...card, buffer, red edge, sensor, etc. No issues with either of my M8.2s
  
• Much less expensive than your alternative
  

 

But, that's just me; others will certainly prefer other options. And I might be one of them once the M240 goes through its paces.

 

Jeff

 

I agree on all points!

 

My M8 with full upgrade has served me extremely well.

 

The new M is tempting to add for it's ability of higher ISO, shooting without flash, if this is really the case,,, and keep the M8u for back up.

 

For me cameras are tools not investments as such, I sell off the gear I don't like or if I feel it doesn't perform...

[Timmyjoe]

Thanks for everyone's help.

 

After the experience yesterday with the pristine M8 (that I was seriously considering purchasing) being DOA at the dealership, I'm too spooked to spend any more money on the M8 system. Picked up one of the last new D-Lux 5 cameras I could find (really like the CCD sensor over the CMOS sensors, especially for converting to B&W, and the two year Leica warranty) and will keep that in my bag when I am using my M8.2 kit as a back up if the M8.2 ever dies on a job.

[Jeff S]

 

So you got, or are planning to get, the M8.2, and not "giving up on the M8 system"?

 

I tried the D-Lux (4) as a back-up and quickly gave it up for a 2nd, used, M8.2. I should have known that my first priority is how I "see" with a camera, and the viewing experience didn't compare to the M...for me. Plus the IQ was not in the same ballpark. Plus, I can now use 2 cameras seamlessly together, without changing lenses, if I'm so inclined.

 

Jeff

[Timmyjoe]

Jeff, I've had an M8.2 for a couple years now. Have it set up just as I like it, with grip, thumbs up, diopter, and my four lenses I spoke of. It works really well and I love the images I get from it.

 

It has nearly 20,000 shutter actuations on it so I worry about something going bad. I can't trust it as an only camera when I am on a job.

 

So I was looking at getting a back up body, and saw an M8.2 in pristine condition, with 5800 actuations, and they were asking $3700 for it, which seemed to me to be pretty steep. Once I got a grip for it, a thumbs up, and another diopter (so I could use both cameras at the same time, which would have been my preference) it was going to be coming close to $4200, for a camera with no warranty, and the potential of a catastrophic failure like the pristine M8 I was also looking at (which was only $2400).

 

So I decided to changer my perspective on the whole issue. I will keep using my M8.2 set up, and so I don't get caught with my "pants down" in case the M8.2 goes belly up in the middle of a job, I will carry the D-Lux 5 as an emergency camera so I can still come back with images for my editor, even if catastrophe strikes the M8.2. The D-Lux 5 is also small enough to not take up too much space in the bag.

[Jeff S]

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Sorry, I forgot your initial post describing your gear. My mint used M8.2 a few years back was $3400, with warranty and recent Leica inspection, and I thought it was a good deal then. I don't use accessories, preferring the camera as-is, so that was the total. Neither one of my M8.2s has had a problem. But, as I said earlier, insurance IS part of my built-in cost. Hope you like the D-lux better than I...or that you don't need to use it.

 

Jeff

[Ruhayat]

Why not pick a used X1 instead of the D-Lux? Better choice for a professional, no?

[Timmyjoe]

Need more than the one focal length.

[doolittle]

Hi Jaapv - I was actually including the Monochrom in my assessment From what I have seen of the MM images they are flat and too grain free and "chocolate boxy". For MY use I much prefer the look of the M8 and as I have no interest in shooting at 10,000 ISO, the 320/640 on the M8 replicates perfectly my favourite TRI-X, giving the same look and gritty feel.

 

Regards Paul Mac

 

I think it's a lot easier to add grain back in, rather than trying to take noise out!

 

Not sure about M8 replicating Tri-X (though will agree the M8 produces pleasant black and white images), but the good news is Tri-X is still available and nothing looks more like Tri-X than Tri-X!

[wildlightphoto]

I don't consider cameras as investments; they are tools for the job

 

This is actually the business-school definition of an investment.

 

Regarding Leica's commitment to older digital equipment I can't say much about the M8.2 but the control wheel recently popped off my DMR and Leica repaired the camera FOC. Parts supply is a problem for some repairs but otherwise I don't see Leica abandoning older equipment simply because it's old.

[Jeff S]

This is actually the business-school definition of an investment.

 

Yep, but I don't use photo gear for business.

 

Many around these parts love to talk about investment in a different sense, e.g., lens price appreciation; I couldn't care less.

 

Jeff

[wattsy]

I've just bought an ex-demo M8.2 with full Leica 2 year warranty (and 1 year passport) for just under £1600 (ex. VAT). I was feeling a bit exposed with some jobs coming up and only a single M9-P for colour work and needed something for back-up purposes (I sold my M9 last year to part fund a Monochrom and, as good as the latter is, it isn't much use as a backup when I'm being paid to shoot colour:D). The M8.2 isn't ideal (must remember to take the UV/IR filters and use them) but is more than sufficient to get the kind of work I do finished in the event of the M9-P going tits-up. I certainly didn't want to spend the extra money to get another M9 body as a backup as it will lay unused most of the time. I also reasoned that, with the warranty, buying the M8.2 represents a bit of a punt on getting an M9P (or similar) at no extra cost if the LCD develops a fault during the next 2 years.

[Jeff S]

 

I've just bought an ex-demo M8.2 with full Leica 2 year warranty (and 1 year passport) for just under £1600 (ex. VAT)

 

The M8.2 isn't ideal (must remember to take the UV/IR filters, etc.)

 

Great deal, Ian, especially with warranty. Given that you own the MM, carrying a few UV/IR filters shouldn't be a big deal.

 

I actually prefer the M8.2 to the M9; the 2m frame lines, top display and screen are among the benefits...plus you shouldn't have issues with cards, buffer, sensor cracks, red edge, etc. It should also serve as a better b/w back-up to your MM than the M9. Hope you grow to like yours more than just as a 'poor man's' M9. I do.

 

Jeff

[wattsy]

plus you shouldn't have issues with cards, buffer, sensor cracks, red edge, etc. It should also serve as a better b/w back-up to your MM than the M9. Hope you grow to like yours more than just as a 'poor man's' M9. I do.

 

Yes, good points about cards and red edge, etc. and I've always argued that the removal of the top LCD was a retrograde step. I've posted here before how I sometimes miss the combination of M8 and 35mm lens so it's a plus that having an M8.2 as back-up provides something a little bit different to having another M9 in the cupboard.

[lct]

Great to use a 35 like a 50 with comfortable and accurate framelines on the M8.2. I've ordered an M240 but the perspective to use the 50mm framelines again does not please me much so i'm not in a hurry to change my habits once more.

[Jeff S]

...I've posted here before how I sometimes miss the combination of M8 and 35mm lens ...

 

Yep, and for me, the 28 frame lines are still visible on the M8.2, allowing use of the wonderful 28 Summicron asph; and I prefer using a 50 on the M8.2 rather than dealing with the 75 frame lines, which I never liked, on the M9.

 

I'm looking forward to trying the M (for weather sealing, quiet shutter, longer battery, faster processor, etc), but like lct, switching FOV and lenses is not necessarily a great thing given my current approach.

 

Jeff

[wattsy]

I'm looking forward to trying the M (for weather sealing, quiet shutter, longer battery, faster processor, etc), but like lct, switching FOV and lenses is not necessarily a great thing given my current approach.

 

There's a lot to be said for sticking with something that works for you and resisting the (arguably irrational) urge to upgrade simply because something new is available. I'll probably get an M (or more likely its successor) at some point in the future but I don't feel compelled to even try it out at present being happy with what I've got. In truth, I'm also unenthusiastic because the new camera is unlikely to feel totally at home in my existing system (it uses a different battery and charger, has a new menu system, baseplate, etc.). My current M system (I only have the one system and haven't used any other kind of camera for some years) isn't perfect as we know (slow operation, occasional buffer problem, etc.) but I am totally familiar with it and I can use various parts of it totally interchangeably, and that counts for a lot.

[Jeff S]

There's a lot to be said for sticking with something that works for you and resisting the (arguably irrational) urge to upgrade simply because something new is available.

 

That's been my mode to date, having stuck with the M8.2 as my digital camera since transitioning away from film 4 years ago. I tested the M9 for a week to see if it could add any practical advantages for me, and decided to stick with the M8.2, which has served me well. In fact, I bought a second M8.2 instead. This had nothing to do with cost, as I was prepared to get 2 M9s; rather it was about the right tool for my needs and preferences.

 

I haven't had GAS since my youth, and that was quite awhile ago while I was still finding my style, and experimenting with disparate camera types and formats.

 

Having said that, I did have complaints about my M8.2, as no camera is perfect. I made a wish list that I posted here at various times over the last 4 years. And, wouldn't you know it, it included weather sealing, 2m frame lines, faster processing and better battery life, and a quiet shutter like my film Ms, without the obnoxious motor re-cock sound (I would have been fine with a manual re-cock had that been possible). At the same time, I had been considering a DSLR (probably a 5DIII) to use primarily with longer lenses.

 

The M rang all of these bells, and more, with the bonus that it could save me from having to buy a DSLR that I'd probably not like very much except for very limited use. But, being ever pragmatic, I'll rent one first and see how I get along with it. The ultimate test will be prints, ones I make using my own images. If it works out, great; if not, I'm a pretty happy camper already.

 

As I've said elsewhere, I've found that purchases on the processing and printing end of the chain (printer, software, papers, inks, profiles, etc) have been far more valuable to me over the last 4 years than any new camera could have achieved. And improvements in my own techniques and abilities have been just as important.

 

The camera is still an important starting point, and the M system serves me well. So, I'll try the new one and see. But there's no rush, and I've never been an early adopter anyway.

 

Jeff

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