plasticman Posted January 28, 2013 Share #101 Posted January 28, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) Hi Brad - It isn't John's monitor. It is actually simpler than that. All you have to do is track John and plasticman's posts over time and you will figure out what is going on pretty quickly. I'm from Seattle too, Rick Hey Rick - on to the personal attacks again, just exactly as you ALWAYS do. Start the baiting and the insulting. Keep it up eh! Why don't you keep it on the images? What about the grid noise pattern? What about the color issues that Sandy was talking about? No-one allowed to question this camera that you're so desperate to buy no matter what the images actually look like? Be a man. Discuss the images. Leave the personal attacks out of it. PS: as an aside, if anyone reads Rick's persistent personal attacks on me and thinks I'm some sort of Canikon troll lurking on the forum - I've owned and still own an enormous amount of Leica equipment which I love to use. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted January 28, 2013 Posted January 28, 2013 Hi plasticman, Take a look here First M240 RAW files released.. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
D&A Posted January 28, 2013 Share #102 Posted January 28, 2013 Hello lct, You can't tell. That is a calla lily. The flowers & leaves of calla lillys look "plasticky" in real life. ...and in quite a few smaller restaurants I've been to, these particulcar type of flowers are often times plasticky....well because they actually use plastic ones that are hard to distuingush from the real ones! . Wouldn't it be funny if we all start complaining that the M240 images of the these lillys look plasticky and they actually are in reality, the plastic variety kind?...LOL! Dave (D&A) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted January 28, 2013 Share #103 Posted January 28, 2013 Mani and Rick - OK guys, break it up - no more ad-hominems please, I am on holiday and basically too lazy to do much deleting. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
macjonny1 Posted January 28, 2013 Share #104 Posted January 28, 2013 If the performance is as good as it looks now i would certainly think this cam will be a much better choice for B&W photography than even the MM Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanJW Posted January 28, 2013 Share #105 Posted January 28, 2013 What a lot of hooey about a few images. FWIW, I was able to open the DNGs in ACR -- but they opened with the ACR "2010" process rather than the current "2012" process, and in the 2010 process seemed very flat. That says to me that they are not OOC images but got some processing under process 2010 in ACR (or perhaps some other developer that ACR read as 2010 process). Changing to 2012 Process was a big improvement. The exif data in the DNGs also did not contain any lens information, so the user must have turned off lens detection or was using uncoded lenses. In any event, these are unremarkable images and I am reserving judgment about ultimate quality until the whole system can be looked at (sensor, lens, and developer) but I am nevertheless keeping my place in the queue for a M240 because I am certain that Leica would not release a M9 successor with lesser image quality. Whether it is enough IQ to justify a purchase decision is an individual matter. For me, the EVF and live view would be sufficient even at equal IQ. YMMV. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marknorton Posted January 28, 2013 Share #106 Posted January 28, 2013 I posted earlier that I have no idea what Leica is doing with this latest strategy, and it seems very bizarre to me the way Dr. Rohde's images and comments are being released, with almost no other samples or comments. Apparently the good doctor is the only one who is not still bound by an NDA. Jono Slack has now been photographed with his M240 while on vacation in the Italian Alps. Going back and reviewing the images he has posted on facebook during this trip I see images that I feel certain are from the M240, several which have been converted to B&W. IMHO these images only strengthen my belief that Leica is royally screwing up in the way they are releasing samples. Jono's images are razor sharp, even for jpegs 2048 × 1365 pixels at 72dpi and exhibit amazing dynamic range and tonality. Come on Leica. Cry havoc and let slip the real samples of the M240!!! Just take a look at Jono's web-site and you'll see a standard of photography I aspire to. I do not aspire to Dr Rohde's standard of photography, much as I respect him for his technical knowledge in my own (former, now that I am retired) field. I do think that Leica's approach is completely inexplicable. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted January 28, 2013 Share #107 Posted January 28, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) Just for fun, you might want to see what Dr Rohde does in some of his spare time besides photography, teaching, publishing, sailing and owning Rohde &Schwarz among who knows what else. Here are a few of his Amateur Radio Stations he has built for himself from around the world. When I write that he built them I don't mean he connected some wires and threw up some antennas, I mean he designed and built the radios himself. If you look carefully at some of the radios in the pictures you will see they are Rohde&Schwarz radios! DJ2LR Munich Germany N1UL Upper Saddle River, NJ DL1R Staffelsee Bavaria N1UL Marco Island, FL station N1UL Marco Island (Marine Mobile) And you think photography is a technical hobby. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marknorton Posted January 28, 2013 Share #108 Posted January 28, 2013 Rick, you're clearly an Ulrich Rohde fan-boy which is your prerogative. Me, I'm just looking forward to some images which show what the M240 is capable of. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted January 28, 2013 Share #109 Posted January 28, 2013 Mark, I know this guy is brilliant. I know that his pictures, as I've stated in this thread, are underexposed. I've addressed the comments on the noise in the shadows, which for under exposed photos still looks better than my M9. The red color problems (seen with the M9) seems better on the one photo in the bar of the bartender's face but, I stated it is one bad lighting picture and stated that my M9 has done as well and worse under these conditions. It isn't that I'm a fanboy of the doctor at all, I just know the guy is smart and I tend to give him the benefit of the doubt if he believes that the camera is less noisy than his D600 and he stated the color is better and the camera has higher dynamic range - all of which is impossible to tell from the posted pictures but, I believe him because I know who he is. And, I've stated here and on earlier threads that I want Leica to release photos (just like you have) and that I wanted Jono to get a camera (and he did I see). So, I completely agree with you when you say, "I'm just looking forward to some images which show what the M240 is capable of." That really is the crux of this whole thread. Lastly, from everything I've read about this sensor and the way Leica has been able to control the technology in-house, their expertise and experience with designing digital camera systems and optics... I just believe it adds up to a M that is going to absolutely surprise just about everyone. No fanboy, just trying to be balanced and so far I think this is all encouraging but, hard to judge... Rick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
slippyphoto Posted January 28, 2013 Share #110 Posted January 28, 2013 Guys if anyone is interested, I've just opened up the first file (coastline) up in Capture One Pro 6.4.3 without any issues whatsoever. Was a bit surprised actually... Just make a new session, and drag the file into the capture folder. As I was about the image quality too. Much better that I anticipated after all the negative hype. Great sharpness and clarity at 100%, good dynamic range, colours were a touch off but nothing that i would sort with a touch of balancing in software, not bad noise (although this I might have expected to be better at 320iso), all in all my gut tells me the crispness of the file will end up rivalling that my D800Es. Would love to see a direct comparison of a portrait in controlled lighting with an M9 though!! I processed the file out at 100%, and am pretty confident that with some half decent photographic subjects and post processing, this will be a very impressive camera body. I am making this statement looking at this one file though, so hopefully I won't eat my words. I'm now looking forward to its release for the first time! http://www.simonlipman.co.uk Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
-ph- Posted January 28, 2013 Share #111 Posted January 28, 2013 When I try to judge a camera from shots on the net, I only look at those I like best, not the worst. There are many reasons why a single shot might look bad, and the camera usually has little to do with it. For the record: I am able to take absolutely awful pictures with my M9 . During a demo, I was able to look at a couple of pictures shot at ISO 6400 in Lightroom at 100%. I was quite positively surprised at them... Peter Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
darylgo Posted January 28, 2013 Share #112 Posted January 28, 2013 Guys if anyone is interested, I've just opened up the first file (coastline) up in Capture One Pro 6.4.3 without any issues whatsoever.... all in all my gut tells me the crispness of the file will end up rivalling that my D800Es. Simon Lipman Using the same software, my conclusion is the same as yours, and if the Nikon D800e is unnecessary I might dump a Nikon system started in 1970. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest malland Posted January 28, 2013 Share #113 Posted January 28, 2013 If the performance is as good as it looks now i would certainly think this cam will be a much better choice for B&W photography than even the MMHow do you reach this conclusion from the pictures posted by Ulrich Rohde? —Mitch/Chiang Mai Lanka Footsteps [M-Monochrom/Sri Lanka] Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjh Posted January 28, 2013 Share #114 Posted January 28, 2013 In black and white photography the M Monochrom still reigns supreme and the M won’t change that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sblitz Posted January 28, 2013 Share #115 Posted January 28, 2013 Not sure I would agree with that considering the new sensor but we will all see soon enough. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlesphoto99 Posted January 28, 2013 Share #116 Posted January 28, 2013 Files look fine (in LR). As good as if not better then my D600. Still think M9 files have that certain "something, something" that I don't see in these (or any other camera for that matter). But of course the M will probably be a better all-rounder than the 9 and that will appeal to many (esp for commercial work). Just checked out a Monochrom DNG for the first time as well and I can see why it's one of a kind. I also see why it's not for the faint of heart (ie unskilled or unwilling with developing software). Still a mystery as to why these samples are the first in the wild with what is probably very early firmware (won't even go into the aesthetics of the images). Very strange..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BerndReini Posted January 29, 2013 Share #117 Posted January 29, 2013 I just want to say that whether one likes Dr. Rhode's photographs or not, we should all be thankful that we get to play with some Raw files at least. I am a professional, but when I do street photography, I have underexposed plenty of shots, and some of them have been saved and become some of my most successful ones. So let's stop attacking Dr. Rhode and his photos and see what we can learn from these files. I talked about some banding and noise in the shadows of the flower shot, and in the bar picture, the window is obviously beyond repair, but the white styrofoam cups recover quite nicely. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thrid Posted January 29, 2013 Share #118 Posted January 29, 2013 I think the 240 images look very promising. Looking forward to see the results from a final firmware and whatever tweaks need to be made on the DNG processing end. If the exposure range figures are true or close to the truth I will have to seriously reconsider my pursuit of a very high end film scanner and look at the 240 instead. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest malland Posted January 29, 2013 Share #119 Posted January 29, 2013 ...Just checked out a Monochrom DNG for the first time as well and I can see why it's one of a kind. I also see why it's not for the faint of heart (ie unskilled or unwilling with developing software). Still a mystery as to why these samples are the first in the wild with what is probably very early firmware (won't even go into the aesthetics of the images). Very strange..... Charles, M-Monochrom files often require remarkably little adjustment even in fairly difficult backlight. In LR4, the files can be processed quickly with overall adjustments in Exposure, Highlights, Black and Clarity often being sufficient. The skill one needs is to know what the image should look like, for which darkroom experience is helpful (but not essential) because it teaches you what needs to be done to get the type of look in terms of gradation and contrast that one wants. So far I've used selective burning and dodging for relatively few of my M-Monochrom shots. I agree with you that Leica Marketing is shooting itself in the foot if the Company agreed or permitted these sample to be shown. Weird. Knowing some of your color work with the M9, I'll be interested in your reaction to "real" samples from the new M in terms of your comparison of the M9 to slide film vs other digital cameras as color negative film. —Mitch/Chiang Mai Lanka Footsteps [M-Monochrom/Sri Lanka] Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
macjonny1 Posted January 29, 2013 Share #120 Posted January 29, 2013 How do you reach this conclusion from the pictures posted by Ulrich Rohde? —Mitch/Chiang Mai Lanka Footsteps [M-Monochrom/Sri Lanka] Also some pics from Jono Slack Facebook. Better resolution and dynamic range than the CCD. Black and white live view or EVF in black and white. Seeing the world real time in black and white. Pure win for B&W photography Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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