Paulus Posted January 26, 2013 Author Share #21 Posted January 26, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) Paulus, I think much of what you say is very wise. But why do you expect enthusiasts to lose the urge to buy cameras when they reach 50? In my experience, quite the reverse is true. Wisdom, rethinking their priorities and ( lack of ) money. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted January 26, 2013 Posted January 26, 2013 Hi Paulus, Take a look here The average aged won't buy a M240. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Paulus Posted January 26, 2013 Author Share #22 Posted January 26, 2013 That is very interesting logic, Paulus. However, it is those of us who have attained a certain age that will have the money to buy the M240; the younger folks usually don't have that kind of credit or cash on hand. I DO hope, however, that people of any age continue to buy Leica cameras, as it will keep the company in business and insure dependable "forever" service; and that wish is about as transparently selfish as you can get!!!! Cheers, martha Only the young people with money, the fortunate can buy, but they will buy, because they like the look of the M. They really do. They also like the capabilities of the M which resemble the Iphone generation. We, the elder, are not really interested in these capabilities in "our" M. At least a bunch of people keep telling. Leica's plan to make such a camera will indeed insure the business of future customers. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted January 26, 2013 Share #23 Posted January 26, 2013 There will be no shortage of 50-year olds with cash for the Leica market. Another group is always just a year away. Cameras are both a commodity and an experience. For reasons sometimes difficult to explain and understand, Leica is heavy on the experience side of the scale. It is easy to under estimate this when you don't have the camera in your own hands. As long as Leica provides the best image and optics AND stays relevant by keeping up with technology (think live view and video), the M-system will continue to have wide appeal and Leica will continue to confound the experts here... and sell cameras. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanJW Posted January 26, 2013 Share #24 Posted January 26, 2013 Most generalizations based on age are wrong. In this case there are many reasons for us old farts to want a M240, not the least of which is eyesight issues that make focusing a RF dicey at times, especially with longer lenses. I am almost 67 and am really looking forward to a EVF with focus assist, even if the EVF is not the greatest. I am really looking forward to live view for the same reasons. Those features are absolutely a plus for me. I don't much care about video, so I will just leave that button alone. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdriceman Posted January 26, 2013 Share #25 Posted January 26, 2013 Wisdom, rethinking their priorities and ( lack of ) money. Haha... That sounds like very few of the enthusiasts I know. For me, I really only want one thing out of the M that the M9 doesn't offer... Decent performance at 2500+ ISO. It's a tough call at the price, but what I've been able to do with my canon gear at these high ISOs has been remarkable. I just like shooting a rangefinder so much more that I really crave a little more sensitivity. You're right, if I applied wisdom, re-thought my priorities and didn't have the money I wouldn't do it. But, here I am on the waiting list. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hepcat Posted January 26, 2013 Share #26 Posted January 26, 2013 I posted this on the "Hair's breadth away" thread a while ago... Although I'm with you on the "goes against the whole M zeitgeist" bit, it will expand the M into the DSLR market and will allow many folks who already have a phalanx of "M" mount lenses to unload whatever brand DSLR they have and concentrate on a single camera system for all their needs. It will give all of the "R" system owners the ability to continue using their investment in glass, and it will probably also bring some new folks into the fold who wouldn't have otherwise considered the marque. The M doesn't offer me much either right now, but that's not to say there isn't going to be an explosively large market for it especially once folks see what it can really do. I'm glad to see Leica continuing the traditional M series with the M-E and yet expanding the feature set into the mainstream market with the M. And I find it interesting that some aging folks find a rangefinder hard to focus... I switched BACK to Leica because a bright-line rangefinder is absolutely the EASIEST manual focus system to bring into focus for someone like me with some vision issues and glasses. The frames may be tough to see with glasses, but the rangefinder system is brilliant. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdlaing Posted January 26, 2013 Share #27 Posted January 26, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) I posted this on the "Hair's breadth away" thread a while ago... And I find it interesting that some aging folks find a rangefinder hard to focus... I switched BACK to Leica because a bright-line rangefinder is absolutely the EASIEST manual focus system to bring into focus for someone like me with some vision issues and glasses. The frames may be tough to see with glasses, but the rangefinder system is brilliant. Me too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdlaing Posted January 26, 2013 Share #28 Posted January 26, 2013 Maybe you won't , but maybe you are one of the fortunates. If any Leica user would buy an M8, few years later an M9 and a few years later an M. That would cost him about € 10.000,-I would call such a person fortunate. I believe that not all Leica users are so fortunate. I'm fortunate how? Because I work for my money and know how to budget and save for what I want? I'm not sure I understand your logic. Some things are not for some people. That's the way the world operates. It wasn't my doing......I just live in it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico Posted January 26, 2013 Share #29 Posted January 26, 2013 [...]And I find it interesting that some aging folks find a rangefinder hard to focus... I switched BACK to Leica because a bright-line rangefinder is absolutely the EASIEST manual focus system to bring into focus for someone like me with some vision issues and glasses. The frames may be tough to see with glasses, but the rangefinder system is brilliant. Same here. My vision cannot be corrected to 20/20. I use nothing now but rangefinders (Leica, Linhof Super Technika, Super Ikonta) and cameras with external finders or ground glass backs. About the 'average aged' - in the USA the greater part of the population is aged 40 to 54 years-old. (2012 CIA stats) This is also the wealthiest age bracket. The older American age group is shrinking through normal mortality and is likely to remain a constant trend for another fifty years. Leica's M left the professional arena decades ago, and it seems unlikely that it will get back into it again. Unless there are some serious flaws, the new M could be the greatest success Leica has had in thirty years. It seems aimed dead-center for the high-quality amateur enthusiast, and rarefied photojournalist. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wda Posted January 26, 2013 Share #30 Posted January 26, 2013 We will only stop buying new cameras when we are either dead or broke. ... Or Both! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico Posted January 26, 2013 Share #31 Posted January 26, 2013 ... Or Both! When my mother died in 2011, we sons gathered after her funeral rites and the youngest brother passed an envelope to each of us, "It is your inheritance", he said. It was an unhappy moment as we reluctantly opened our envelopes. Suddenly, all at once we cheered loudly, "Way to go Mother!" and laughed for a long time. She died just broke. We each owed a few thousand to clear the estate. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulus Posted January 26, 2013 Author Share #32 Posted January 26, 2013 About the 'average aged' - in the USA the greater part of the population is aged 40 to 54 years-old. (2012 CIA stats) This is also the wealthiest age bracket. The older American age group is shrinking through normal mortality and is likely to remain a constant trend for another fifty years.. I admit it's a non statistic poll: http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/forum-zur-leica-m9/173673-wie-alt-sind-wir-im-durchschnitt-16.html Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
taosantamonica Posted January 26, 2013 Share #33 Posted January 26, 2013 Only the young people with money, the fortunate can buy, but they will buy, because they like the look of the M. They really do. Yeah right, I bought my M’s because they go so well with my favorite dress….and…I save for my equipment so I know the value of the money I’m spending on photography. Perhaps something different than a condescending stereotyping attitude would better serve an "elders" interaction with a generation that enjoys and gets creative satisfaction from photography both film and digital as much as their "elders" do. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulus Posted January 26, 2013 Author Share #34 Posted January 26, 2013 Yeah right, I bought my M’s because they go so well with my favorite dress….and…I save for my equipment so I know the value of the money I’m spending on photography. Perhaps something different than a condescending stereotyping attitude would better serve an "elders" interaction with a generation that enjoys and gets creative satisfaction from photography both film and digital as much as their "elders" I'm sorry, I was not clear in this thought. What I mean with: "but they will buy, because they like the look of the M. They really do." If they have the money, they will choose the camera of the same quality which has the best looks.The M could be that camera. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted January 26, 2013 Share #35 Posted January 26, 2013 The thought just struck me. ......... We, the averaged Leica user with an average age of 48 years, will stop buying cameras in two years from now. That why Leica needs this M. I agree in part, but not about the "48+2"... damn, is the best part, in certain aspects, of a man's life !!! Should people over 50 won't buy cameras... I'd predict big troubles for Leica... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thrid Posted January 26, 2013 Share #36 Posted January 26, 2013 .There will not be so much difference in image quality between the M9 sensor and the M240. How do you know this? 99.9% of the people on this forum have not yet seen the M240 nor its output (aside from a few lousy jpeg on the net) Considering that the sensor in the M9 is based on the one used in the M8 and is now +8 years old, it is difficult to believe that we are not going to see a noticeable jump in performance in terms of high iso performance and exposure range. Also, the youth of today is broke and the financial future for a large percentage of them is looking pretty bleak. Even the M-E is way out of reach for the vast majority of them. If any age group has the money for the 240, it's is the older generations and 1% of any age. The young ins will be hunting for used bargain M9 bodies, maybe even the M8.2 and the occasional M-E. I'm still hoping for a stripped down and cheaper M-E version of the M240 and the reduced price. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomB_tx Posted January 26, 2013 Share #37 Posted January 26, 2013 I generally agree with Paulus. I also am an inch away from 67, and I've used Leica Ms since the 1960s. I also had SLRs, but the M6 was the last camera I bought for decades. Once film cameras went to all-automatic I lost interest, and stayed with the simplicity of the M6. When digital came out I tried a small one for convenience of snapshots - and gave it away very quickly. The M9 was the first (and only) digital that really caught my interest. I did get a dSLR for my wife, who also wanted a "good camera." It's useless to me in manual focus mode due to my eyesight, and autofocus doesn't hit what I want very often. My old film SLRs are getting harder to focus (although the screens are much better than the dSLR), but the Ms are still easier to use than anything else. I still buy cameras - but the last year they have all been film models. The M offers nothing I'd find an advantage, unless the new sensor really proves better with various wide lenses. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hepcat Posted January 26, 2013 Share #38 Posted January 26, 2013 How do you know this? 99.9% of the people on this forum have not yet seen the M240 nor its output (aside from a few lousy jpeg on the net) Considering that the sensor in the M9 is based on the one used in the M8 and is now +8 years old, it is difficult to believe that we are not going to see a noticeable jump in performance in terms of high iso performance and exposure range. I'm going to go out on a limb here. There will undoubtedly be some difference and improvements in the new sensor. It will probably have some extended ISO over the M9 sensor, and probably some other improvements as well, but they will be evolutionary and incremental now rather than revolutionary and a huge leap in quality, sensor size, file size, etc. etc. etc. Formerly, were used to seeing quantum leaps in technology progression from generation to generation, but the technology was actually quite mature with the introduction of the M9, and I think those days are passed. Because of that, I suspect that the features set (live view, etc.) is really where the M-240 will be marketed rather than a "blow you out of the water" sensor-image quality difference. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulus Posted January 26, 2013 Author Share #39 Posted January 26, 2013 How do you know this? 99.9% of the people on this forum have not yet seen the M240 nor its output (aside from a few lousy jpeg on the net) Considering that the sensor in the M9 is based on the one used in the M8 and is now +8 years old, it is difficult to believe that we are not going to see a noticeable jump in performance in terms of high iso performance and exposure range. Just an opinion I overheard. Also, the youth of today is broke and the financial future for a large percentage of them is looking pretty bleak. Even the M-E is way out of reach for the vast majority of them. If any age group has the money for a 240 is the older one. The young ins will be hunting for used bargain M9 bodies, maybe even the M8.2. If that youth is broke, wouldn't a great part of the +48 years old be " broke " in two years? Or at least have lots of money less? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
danedit28 Posted January 26, 2013 Share #40 Posted January 26, 2013 As a 35 year old M9 owner, I would like to offer up this perspective: This is the perhaps the most pointless, nonsensical, speculative, unsubstantiated discussion I have ever read on this forum. And yet here I am contributing to the noise but I can't wait to receive my M240. I put in my pre-order on the first available day. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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