Bobu Posted January 27, 2013 Share #41 Posted January 27, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) Why don't you sell the Lux? The APO-Summicron seems to be perfect. What have you expected of this lens? By the way, wouldn't it have been better to compare the Lux at 1.4? Take a look at the MTF curves. The 40 lp (fine structures) are at 1.4 much different from the curves at 2.8 and 5.6. Thank you for the interesting test. Jan The APO is better in some aspects, like sharpness at f/2 outside of the centre area, but global contrast for example is higher with the Summilux. I shoot mostly landscapes at f/5.6 or f/8. At these apertures I see no clear advantage of the Apo (besides slightly less CA in extreme situation). I was hoping for a significantly better rersolution of fine details with great micro contrast while keeping the high global contrast of the Summilux (at f/5.6). For example I really like the behavior of the Zeiss 50 MP (a DSLR lens) and had hoped for something similar (with slightly better performance in the extreme corners and smoother bokeh, which are the weak points of the 50 MP). Boris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted January 27, 2013 Posted January 27, 2013 Hi Bobu, Take a look here APO-SUMMICRON-M 50 mm f/2 ASPH has arrived!. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
01af Posted January 27, 2013 Share #42 Posted January 27, 2013 Global contrast is mostly irrelevant when shooting digital. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
philipus Posted January 27, 2013 Share #43 Posted January 27, 2013 make an unboxing video and in the end: smash it with a hammer Perhaps it will blend? Sorry for the tangent. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
biglou Posted January 27, 2013 Share #44 Posted January 27, 2013 The APO is better in some aspects, like sharpness at f/2 outside of the centre area, but global contrast for example is higher with the Summilux. I shoot mostly landscapes at f/5.6 or f/8.At these apertures I see no clear advantage of the Apo (besides slightly less CA in extreme situation). I was hoping for a significantly better rersolution of fine details with great micro contrast while keeping the high global contrast of the Summilux (at f/5.6). For example I really like the behavior of the Zeiss 50 MP (a DSLR lens) and had hoped for something similar (with slightly better performance in the extreme corners and smoother bokeh, which are the weak points of the 50 MP). Boris Hi, Did you try it on film ? The limiting factor with the M9 will be the captor and at 5.6, most lenses will outperform the camera capability to capture details. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobu Posted January 27, 2013 Share #45 Posted January 27, 2013 Global contrast is mostly irrelevant when shooting digital. It's less important compared to shooting film. But if you have to raise the contrast significantly in PP you will loose some IQ. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobu Posted January 27, 2013 Share #46 Posted January 27, 2013 Hi,Did you try it on film ? The limiting factor with the M9 will be the captor and at 5.6, most lenses will outperform the camera capability to capture details. I have no film camera (and never had film Leica). But I'm not sure that most lenses will outperform the M9. For example images shot stopped down to f/5.6 with either the 21 SE or the 24 Elmar show significantly more fine details than images shot with the 28 Summicron (on the M9), at least viewed at 100%. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IWC Doppel Posted January 27, 2013 Share #47 Posted January 27, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) Interesting, not what I was expecting after taking about 10 shots with this in London last year I was really impressed by the images in comparison to my 35 asph Summilux at the time for what I could ony describe as clarity. I am very familiar with my 28 summicron which as we know is no slouch here and it did seem notably better and did impress me when I was not expecting it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
biglou Posted January 27, 2013 Share #48 Posted January 27, 2013 I have no film camera (and never had film Leica). But I'm not sure that most lenses will outperform the M9. For example images shot stopped down to f/5.6 with either the 21 SE or the 24 Elmar show significantly more fine details than images shot with the 28 Summicron (on the M9), at least viewed at 100%. You are right, i experienced the same. On film the 28 summicron is eceptionnal, but maybe for some reason not so good with the M9. Captors have their own logic. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bundestrainer Posted January 27, 2013 Share #49 Posted January 27, 2013 Interesting, not what I was expecting after taking about 10 shots with this in London last year I was really impressed by the images in comparison to my 35 asph Summilux at the time for what I could ony describe as clarity. I am very familiar with my 28 summicron which as we know is no slouch here and it did seem notably better and did impress me when I was not expecting it. Do you own the Summilux 50 ASPH, too? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marknorton Posted January 27, 2013 Author Share #50 Posted January 27, 2013 After a morning playing with it, I think this is a lens which is going to take some work to get the best out of it and justify the expense. Unlike other higher priced lenses where you get something tangible for your money - usually a faster lens - here is a lens which offers apparently less for much more money and it's only when you look at the images that the benefits appear and the lens might justify its existence. There's no doubt it's sharper corner to corner and lateral colour fringing greatly reduced. It's a superb handling lens, beautifully made but in the finish, I too am having trouble with focussing accuracy. The results on each of my 4 digital Ms are different and it's down of course to that pesky rangefinder which we know is stretched when dealing with a fast, long lens close up. This isn't an especially fast or especially long lens but to gain best results from it, it has to be very accurately focussed. Mis-focus, or introduce camera shake, and the potential benefit of the extra cost is lost. I like the images I am seeing, but are they better - at my level of photographic skill - than the existing players? I don't know. I don't see the lack of contrast Boris is complaining about but then I prefer the 28mm Summicron to the Elmarit which has the reputation of being a harshly contrasty lens. It will be interesting to try the lens on the M240 where focussing accuracy is assured with Live View. Until then, I cannot say this is a must-have lens at the price. I'll be interested to see what others make of it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobu Posted January 27, 2013 Share #51 Posted January 27, 2013 I don't see the lack of contrast Boris is complaining about but then I prefer the 28mm Summicron to the Elmarit which has the reputation of being a harshly contrasty lens. That's a good comparison. The contrast of the 50AA is more like the 28mm Summicron, while the contrast of the 50 Summilux is (stopped down) more like the Elmarit (or 24 Elmar). Boris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bundestrainer Posted January 27, 2013 Share #52 Posted January 27, 2013 After a morning playing with it, I think this is a lens which is going to take some work to get the best out of it and justify the expense. Unlike other higher priced lenses where you get something tangible for your money - usually a faster lens - here is a lens which offers apparently less for much more money and it's only when you look at the images that the benefits appear and the lens might justify its existence. There's no doubt it's sharper corner to corner and lateral colour fringing greatly reduced. It's a superb handling lens, beautifully made but in the finish, I too am having trouble with focussing accuracy. The results on each of my 4 digital Ms are different and it's down of course to that pesky rangefinder which we know is stretched when dealing with a fast, long lens close up. This isn't an especially fast or especially long lens but to gain best results from it, it has to be very accurately focussed. Mis-focus, or introduce camera shake, and the potential benefit of the extra cost is lost. I like the images I am seeing, but are they better - at my level of photographic skill - than the existing players? I don't know. I don't see the lack of contrast Boris is complaining about but then I prefer the 28mm Summicron to the Elmarit which has the reputation of being a harshly contrasty lens. It will be interesting to try the lens on the M240 where focussing accuracy is assured with Live View. Until then, I cannot say this is a must-have lens at the price. I'll be interested to see what others make of it. Can we see some of the photos you took? I'm really interested in seeing a portrait. I'd also like to see examples of the rendering of the 50 Cron AA. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonki-M Posted January 27, 2013 Share #53 Posted January 27, 2013 The corners of your photographs must be very important. Let's see some please! no, the corners are not that important to me, Peter. But corner performance, nowaday, seems to be one of the key indexes of modern optical excellence; the sarcasm in your comment is rather uncalled for. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter H Posted January 27, 2013 Share #54 Posted January 27, 2013 no, the corners are not that important to me, Peter. But corner performance, nowaday, seems to be one of the key indexes of modern optical excellence; the sarcasm in your comment is rather uncalled for. Forgive me if I misunderstood this from you (my emphasis): "Just in awe that Leica could surpass the 50 Lux ASPH! corner performance of the AA is very shockingly superb. This will justify the price vs 1 stop trade off for many of us to come" It wasn't so much sarcasm as genuine scepticism and curiosity. But perhaps I misinterpreted the "us" as including you, in which case, my apologies. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonki-M Posted January 27, 2013 Share #55 Posted January 27, 2013 Forgive me if I misunderstood this from you (my emphasis): "Just in awe that Leica could surpass the 50 Lux ASPH! corner performance of the AA is very shockingly superb. This will justify the price vs 1 stop trade off for many of us to come" It wasn't so much sarcasm as genuine scepticism and curiosity. But perhaps I misinterpreted the "us" as including you, in which case, my apologies. also my apologies, Peter. I may have typed w/o rechecking what i wrote. what i meant to say was 'Will this [improved performance] justify the price-vs-1stop trade off' comparing to the Lux ASPH. great catch Peter. i was actually surprised to see what i wrote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
k_g_wolf ✝ Posted January 27, 2013 Share #56 Posted January 27, 2013 what is on the Viso? The lens on the VISO III was a 90mm Elmarit. The lenshead can be taken off the normal lensbarrel and fits the black universalmount, which can also accomodate the 135mm Tele-Elmar. Best GEORG Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Gunst Lund Posted January 28, 2013 Share #57 Posted January 28, 2013 Sorry, I stand corrected! In my post above, I assumed the Summilux test picture was flawed by camera shake. Not so! Today, I took some test shots with my own Summilux-M 50 mm Asph lens at f/2 on the M9, on a similar subject and at a similar distance as Bobu's ... and daaang! At the image height chosen by Bobu for his crops, my pictures also look as if they were blurred by camera shake. There's a zone at, say, 12 - 15 mm image height where the Summilux, at f/2, has comparatively poor image quality indeed. I never noticed before ... I must say that it is very odd that nobody else has noticed this before: "...There's a zone at, say, 12 - 15 mm image height where the Summilux, at f/2, has comparatively poor image quality..." Why has no reviewer or photographer noticed this before? Why is this so, field curvature or? Anybody else seen this? BTW There is a hint of it in the MTF curves... but...? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
philipus Posted January 28, 2013 Share #58 Posted January 28, 2013 I've certainly never seen this in my copy. Then again I use film so perhaps it is less visible. In any event, I won't replace it with the new Summicron because f1.4 is of real value to me and my style of photography. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hillavoider Posted January 28, 2013 Share #59 Posted January 28, 2013 Well, just one more, kudos to the brilliant lens ...Again, f2.0, focus was on the camera. Regards GEORG thanks, the hand and watch are remarkably sharp Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkP Posted January 28, 2013 Share #60 Posted January 28, 2013 ...but then I prefer the 28mm Summicron to the Elmarit ... ditto. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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