250swb Posted January 10, 2013 Share #21 Posted January 10, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) The "color space" usually utilized in Photoshop for MM files is Grey Gamma 2.2, unless you are adding toning effects, in which case sRGB is sufficient. But it is what his commercial printer is using that matters. Many specify Adobe RGB or ProPhoto, and converting the file into either of these will not affect the greyscale image, yet may answer the question as to why his M9 photo's come out better. Steve Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted January 10, 2013 Posted January 10, 2013 Hi 250swb, Take a look here Ultimate M Monochrom printer setup. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
GdOC Posted September 8, 2013 Share #22 Posted September 8, 2013 By the number of posts of M Monochrom users, there must be at least some who have been trying to print their own images. Having looked around the forum there are a few posts here and there on M9 printing, but I would like to see if we are able to come up with some consensus on an "utlimate" printer setup for the Monochrom. The reason for this is, not only for me to get some help on picking the right hardware/software, but also to help others since the qualities of the Monochrom are not "visible" until one starts to look at the obtainable prints. Let's try to divide the topic into a number of questions, assuming we want to do it at home and that we have two different cost options (1) less than $2000 or (2) $2000-5000 including potential additional software (eg RIP) and hardware (eg calibrator). For time being, let's assume that we don't include paper and ink costs - knowing printing is expensive Moreover, let's assume that we make use of the latest versions of Photoshop and Lightroom in our existing workflows, and have a monitor like the Eizo Coloredge CG275W or NEC Spectraview Reference 241. Hence, a very good starting point for adding a matching printer setup. #1 Which printer, eg Epson 3xxx-4xxx, Canon Pixma Pro-1, would you suggest? #2 Which additional software, eg RIP, would you suggest to further push the quality of the printer? #3 Which additional hardware, eg calibrator, would you suggest to further push the quality of this setup? #4 For which types of prints will this setup be at its best/worse? Users of the Leica M Monochrom, let's help our friends to get more out of their great camera and come up with a good printer setup! /magnus A happy Swedish owner of a Leica M Monochrom Blog (Swedish): English version by Google Translate 500px: Impressions & Interpretations Flickr: Photostream High, i'm a proud owner and very satisfied of a new MM. Pictures taken at ISO 5000 are extremely good. Settings: I do not do much but I use very good paper (Canson Infinity) and I insert in the Mac the paper profile so that the printer can do no new damage while Lightroom works. Very little adjustments in Lightroom. Calibration for BW? Honestly...The printer is an Epson 3880. Expensive? No. Ink is expensive. Bests Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Albertson Posted September 8, 2013 Share #23 Posted September 8, 2013 I've been printing from Lightroom with an Epson 4900 at the rental lab I use. I'll do some post-processing in LR on my workstation at home (a Lenovo W530), export the finished DNGs to a thumb drive, and take it to the lab and print from Lightroom on their Macs. For a while I was using the Canson profile for their paper (Baryta Photographique makes very good B&W prints), but lately have switched to the Epson Advanced B&W driver and have been quite happy with the results. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest WPalank Posted September 8, 2013 Share #24 Posted September 8, 2013 The "color space" usually utilized in Photoshop for MM files is Grey Gamma 2.2, unless you are adding toning effects, in which case sRGB is sufficient. Gamma describes how a color space defines the luminance (brightness) transition from black to white. It in itself is not a "color space". ProPhoto 1.8 Adobe and sRGB 2.2 Ruminate, repeat, spin, dry.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
russell Posted September 9, 2013 Share #25 Posted September 9, 2013 I use carbon inks on a Epson 1500w (called 1430 in the US). http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/Eboni-6.pdf It's hard to imagine a better setup. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Printmaker Posted September 11, 2013 Share #26 Posted September 11, 2013 First let me say, I am a professional printmaker. I reproduce art for about 250 artists, 30 galleries, a few dozen photographers and several museums. My setup may be a little expensive for most home users... but here goes: Mac Pro computer with 4 internal drives and 5 external drives, 16 GB ram and a NEC 27 inch MultiSync along with a Mac G5 and a NEC 22 monitor which functions as a print server. iMac, MacBook Pro, Dell Software: Adobe CC, CS 5.5 and PS7. EyeOne Publish (CMYK & RGB) Epson 9890 for color and K3 black. Epson 9800 for watercolor paper (about to be converted to Carbon K7 black) Epson 3800 for Carbon K7 black Along with scanners, 4x5 scanback copy camera, light banks, studio strobe, laminators, binders, Xerox color laser, etc., etc. I'm very impressed with Epson K3 inks when used with Epson's Exhibition Fiber paper on my 9890. Great Dmax and beautiful tonality. Looks like a silverbromide print. A super combo. Most photographers will be quite happy with this paper/ink. I've been testing the Cone Carbon 7 inks in an Epson 3800 on Canson Bayrta and Platine papers. Wow! I love this combo. Tonality is smooth with great transitions. There is almost no evidence of any printer pattern and the print color is to die for especially the C7 on Platine which looks like a Palladium print... but that is just my opinion. Many photographers prefer the cooler look of K3 on EEF. Others find that they can not see the difference in the level of detail between K3 and C7. And, of course, running K3 allows you to dial in a touch of warmth or run in color. What most do not know is the K3 blacks are almost pure carbon pigment. Archivally, both ink sets test at well over 100 years when archivally matted and framed. I would not be surprised if the C7 inks, which are pure carbon, go for several centuries under museum conditions on Canson's 100% cotton Platine paper. No real data yet though. It is nice to have both options. For home use, a pair of 3880s - one running K3 and the other C7 would be the perfect setup. Add a computer, and Leica M9 or M and a Monochrom, and it is as good as it gets. Myself, just as soon as I've profiled all of my watercolor papers for the 9890 and run out the rest of my 9800 inks, I'm going to convert my 9800 over to C7 so I can offer my artists and photographers the C7 option in 20x30 to 40x60 inch sizes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wattsie Posted September 11, 2013 Share #27 Posted September 11, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) First let me say, I am a professional printmaker. I reproduce art for about 250 artists, 30 galleries, a few dozen photographers and several museums. My setup may be a little expensive for most home users... but here goes: Mac Pro computer with 4 internal drives and 5 external drives, 16 GB ram and a NEC 27 inch MultiSync along with a Mac G5 and a NEC 22 monitor which functions as a print server. iMac, MacBook Pro, Dell Software: Adobe CC, CS 5.5 and PS7. EyeOne Publish (CMYK & RGB) Epson 9890 for color and K3 black. Epson 9800 for watercolor paper (about to be converted to Carbon K7 black) Epson 3800 for Carbon K7 black Along with scanners, 4x5 scanback copy camera, light banks, studio strobe, laminators, binders, Xerox color laser, etc., etc. I'm very impressed with Epson K3 inks when used with Epson's Exhibition Fiber paper on my 9890. Great Dmax and beautiful tonality. Looks like a silverbromide print. A super combo. Most photographers will be quite happy with this paper/ink. I've been testing the Cone Carbon 7 inks in an Epson 3800 on Canson Bayrta and Platine papers. Wow! I love this combo. Tonality is smooth with great transitions. There is almost no evidence of any printer pattern and the print color is to die for especially the C7 on Platine which looks like a Palladium print... but that is just my opinion. Many photographers prefer the cooler look of K3 on EEF. Others find that they can not see the difference in the level of detail between K3 and C7. And, of course, running K3 allows you to dial in a touch of warmth or run in color. What most do not know is the K3 blacks are almost pure carbon pigment. Archivally, both ink sets test at well over 100 years when archivally matted and framed. I would not be surprised if the C7 inks, which are pure carbon, go for several centuries under museum conditions on Canson's 100% cotton Platine paper. No real data yet though. It is nice to have both options. For home use, a pair of 3880s - one running K3 and the other C7 would be the perfect setup. Add a computer, and Leica M9 or M and a Monochrom, and it is as good as it gets. Myself, just as soon as I've profiled all of my watercolor papers for the 9890 and run out the rest of my 9800 inks, I'm going to convert my 9800 over to C7 so I can offer my artists and photographers the C7 option in 20x30 to 40x60 inch sizes. I agree about the Cone inks. I'm using the K7 Selenium set on Cone's Type 5 paper as well as Canson Platine Fibre Rag, both very nice. How do you find the Carbon set on glossy papers in terms of tone/appearance? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest WPalank Posted September 11, 2013 Share #28 Posted September 11, 2013 I have been using Canson Platine and Baryta Papers for years now. not a new discovery. the people that have constantly touted the Epson Exhibition fiber papers have never done a comparison or don't know what they are doing. Canson has blown me away for YEARS. Using the ImagePrint RIP, I see NO Printer Pattern. Using the same file, same Canson Paper, same size, I would love to go head to head with anyone using the Cone system. An anonymous panel of judges that have no idea what was what or where the prints came from. Can anyone answer why Epson Black Inks are brown? They come out black on the print. Just run a nozzle check. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Printmaker Posted September 11, 2013 Share #29 Posted September 11, 2013 I agree about the Cone inks. I'm using the K7 Selenium set on Cone's Type 5 paper as well as Canson Platine Fibre Rag, both very nice. How do you find the Carbon set on glossy papers in terms of tone/appearance? I'd love to say that it looks just like the old Agfa Portriga but it is a different "color". It is less green and the highlights are slightly warm but not yellow. Before the invention of ink jet printers, we could get this C7 warm natural black by running Pantone Black tritones on a printing press using 300 line screens and dry trapping. The old days... but these are the good days now. It is so much easier. Carbon is just slightly warm. Its about the same degree that the selenium inks are slightly magenta. Cone's number 5 is Canson's Baryta. Wonderful paper. It has completely replaced Illford Gold Silk in my studio. I'm running all of my personal work on C7/Canson Baryta. But a lot of photographers like an absolutely neutral black and to get that look the Epson K3 on Epson's Exhibition Fiber paper is a great way to go. Run at 2800 ppi and use the Epson printer driver to get the best results. There is a series of videos which will give you a good start here: Digital Black-and-White Printing Tutorials & Expert Interviews - Epson America, Inc. Happy printmaking! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wattsie Posted September 11, 2013 Share #30 Posted September 11, 2013 I steer away from the exhibition fibre due to the OBA content. Agree that the Canson papers are the pick these days. I'm getting beautiful results with them and the Type 5. Keen to try imageprint as well at some stage. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wattsie Posted September 11, 2013 Share #31 Posted September 11, 2013 I have been using Canson Platine and Baryta Papers for years now. not a new discovery. the people that have constantly touted the Epson Exhibition fiber papers have never done a comparison or don't know what they are doing. Canson has blown me away for YEARS. Using the ImagePrint RIP, I see NO Printer Pattern. Using the same file, same Canson Paper, same size, I would love to go head to head with anyone using the Cone system. An anonymous panel of judges that have no idea what was what or where the prints came from. Can anyone answer why Epson Black Inks are brown? They come out black on the print. Just run a nozzle check. The inks are brown because they are carbon based inks. There is no question in my mind at the moment as to the longevity of the epson ink set on the right paper - that debate has been put to rest by the testing at Aardenburg. In fact the Epsons with Imageprint give some of the best results (only outdone by pure carbon and the HP Noritsu set, but at those levels there is not much in it). I think the main consideration, if prints are handled and stored correctly, is appearance. That's personal, and as with the old processes different inks will also lend themselves better or worse to different images. We're in a great spot now where we have these choices. Those who aren't printing and experimenting are missing out! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IWC Doppel Posted September 11, 2013 Share #32 Posted September 11, 2013 I have been very pleased using a 3880 for printing B&W with M9 files. Using ABW mode and a calibrated iMAC I have been able to match what I see on screen to what I see on paper, This has involved discreet brightness, tone and contrast adjustments for the chosen papers. But now very happy. (I have proper externally made icc's for colour) If I was new to printing I think I would keep it as simple as possible and start with something like a 2880 or 3880 and accept that is has a bit of colour ink, with little use. There is a lot to learn. Then when you are 6-12m in consider converting to Cone inks or something more specialist. The print quality I get from the 3880 is superb. I now only print on matt papers, Baryta or gloss are just not for me Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
erudolph Posted September 11, 2013 Share #33 Posted September 11, 2013 One last plug for Innova Warm Cotton Gloss paper. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted September 12, 2013 Share #34 Posted September 12, 2013 Using the same file, same Canson Paper, same size, I would love to go head to head with anyone using the Cone system..... No reason not to use Canson papers AND the Cone system, which can use Cone inks on Epson printers (less expensive and more environmentally friendly than Epson inks), including selenium inks that can be used effectively, and beautifully, with gloss optimizer on the two Canson papers you mention. Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted September 12, 2013 Share #35 Posted September 12, 2013 We're in a great spot now where we have these choices. Those who aren't printing and experimenting are missing out! Exactly....inks and papers. Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest WPalank Posted September 12, 2013 Share #36 Posted September 12, 2013 No reason not to use Canson papers AND the Cone system.... Jeff Except that the Cone System turns your Printer into a Black and White only machine, right? I may not know enough about the Cone Set..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted September 12, 2013 Share #37 Posted September 12, 2013 Except that the Cone System turns your Printer into a Black and White only machine, right? Yep, but so what given that the system can be used on older, not so expensive, Epsons. Even the latest Epsons are routinely discounted and rebated, since the inks are where the company makes the money. And the Cone inks cost less than Epson equivalents. Cone also makes replacement color inks for Epsons, which again are much less expensive, so one could, in theory, print color and b/w on the same machine, but not practically speaking due to the required ink flush and change. Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest WPalank Posted September 12, 2013 Share #38 Posted September 12, 2013 To me it's about footprint. Home/Studio have space for one Large Format Printer. Also, don't want to be going down to the basement and dragging up a printer every time I want/need to make a B&W Print. Nothing to do with the price of a refurb printer. However, a couple feet of Real Estate in San Francisco can be in the tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars. So a big "so what?" for me. No thanks. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted September 12, 2013 Share #39 Posted September 12, 2013 I lived in the SF Bay Area and had a darkroom. Two printers take up far less space, and in fact fit easily into my office that I had even when I had a darkroom. All about priorities....and a bit of floor planning. YMMV. Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest WPalank Posted September 12, 2013 Share #40 Posted September 12, 2013 So now we're back at the beginning. I see no need for a Cone System as IP + Canson Papers give me a truly neutral print with no printer patterns even after up-rezzing in the IP Module. Sometimes doubling the pixels. But wattsie hit the nail on the head, it's all subjective. I see no need for a Cone System or other B&W system as i have walked into Galleries presenting images from the Cone Inks. All i could say to myself was why? Unimpressed, I can do better with my one system that prints B&W/Color on the turn of a dime. Hallelujah........ I have also walked into Galleries with Prints by the Photoshop/Epson Masters printing through ABW. Again unimpressed and typically a green-cast (under correct lighting). I have DONE better. Well, enough. Time to jump in my German car engineered in Stuttgart-Zuffenhausen. Time to reek havoc on the environment. Vroooommmmm....... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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