M-240 "Seeking Light"

[pico]

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Contest

 

Complete this phrase:

 

I would be a good Beta tester because ...

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The Leica Q3 is available for pre-order at B&H Photo Video and Adorama

[algrove]

I don't want to be a beta tester, just an M-240 owner.

[k-hawinkler]

The point is that the M9 and the new M-240 have so many menu choices and so many buttons to press at the most opportune or inopportune times that that alone gives an incredibly large number of combinations. So, the more testing by a more diverse population of testers under very different conditions the better in order to avoid well known M9 and unforeseen M-240 issues. Before one ever gets to optical/photographic issues Leica has to ensure that the new M works utterly reliably as an electrical/electronic device. That's where extensive testing is as important as for photographic issues, my 2 cents,

 

 

Well, let me paint a slightly more realistic scenario. Throw into the above mix borderline out of spec accessories that are not under Leica's control, such as a marginal, used up memory card and/or an iffy run down battery. Nevertheless, the M camera should have the smarts built into it to either decide whether it can reliably take and store more images or whether it should shut down in a hopefully controlled way without hanging or corrupting already stored images. So, a comprehensive testing program would cover also these parameters under wildly varying conditions - hot, cold, wet, dry - in connection with the other ones. Presumably, after Leica's experiences with the M8, M9, these areas get investigated thoroughly before release of the M.

 

I am looking forward though to image quality comparisons between the M9 and M if and when the time is right. And of course another insightful demonstration by Jono with lots of great pictures.

[marknorton]

I would certainly like to be a beta tester, if for no other reason than to influence improvements in the English we see displayed. There's a particular style of strangled English when Leica makes an announcement and you have to re-read several times to understand what they are trying to say. There's an ambiguity of language which leaves more questions than answers.

 

My pet hate is where there's gratuitous abbreviation complete with full stops where, for a native English speaker, there are shorter words to convey the same meaning. Decades of writing software which has been translated into foreign languages has taught me that it should be translated into a language by a native speaker of that language.

 

A simple example. The word "Attention!" has the same nagging, hectoring feel to it which the lady on my (German) SatNav, who is called Helga, routinely employs when I have failed to follow her instructions. To me, "Take Care" is too soft and fluffy, "Warning" (without the exclamation mark) strikes a better balance.

[Thomv]

Decades of writing software which has been translated into foreign languages has taught me that it should be translated into a language by a native speaker of that language.

Ahh, I finally met a native C++ speaker :D

[marknorton]

Ahh, I finally met a native C++ speaker :D

 

i++

[Peter Branch]

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I would certainly like to be a beta tester, if for no other reason than to influence improvements in the English we see displayed. .........

 

Mark,

I have made this same point to Leica many times. It used to be thought quite exotic to read what was obviously only one small step removed from a German language original. Japanese companies perfected this arcane art form.

 

Nowadays it is, I suggest, counterproductive. As you rightly point out the inevitable ambiguity diminishes technical credibility which for Leica is a core brand value that should be carefully protected.

 

The initial ENG. Version M-240 literature is something of a classic study in ambiguity. I suppose the justification is that it keeps debate on forums such as this one lively for many months.

 

Is there a name for a marketing approach based on maintaining deliberate uncertainty to sustain interest when there is nothing to sell?

 

I’m told that the German operation won’t even send proofs to other countries for correction. Partly security I’m told and partly because it might involve loss of face back in Solms where the implied direct criticism, which is unavoidable when proof reading, is apparently not consistent with the local culture.

[Lightwrangler]

[…] and partly because it might involve loss of face […] which […] is apparently not consistent with the local culture.

 

Your idea of german "local culture" sounds more like an asian one

 

Mike

[jonoslack]

A simple example. The word "Attention!" has the same nagging, hectoring feel to it which the lady on my (German) SatNav, who is called Helga, routinely employs when I have failed to follow her instructions. To me, "Take Care" is too soft and fluffy, "Warning" (without the exclamation mark) strikes a better balance.

 

I rather like "Careful" less aggressive than "Warning" but not s fluffy as "Take Care".

 

I agree, and it's an interesting subject. I don't think the M9 menus are too bad. If you've ever been 'interviewed' for LFI, your words will be translated into German . . . and then back into English again for the English edition. A disturbing experience!

 

all the best

[marknorton]

The rule of thumb I used to follow is that foreign languages can take up to 30% more space than English so that was how much "white space" I used to reserve for field widths to minimise problems on translation.

 

German is a much more wordy language than English and Germans are well used to seeing their language truncated for this reason.

 

So while "Autom. Wiederg." or "Bel.reihe-Einst." on the M9 menu are apparently fine, I think "Color managem." and "Ex.comp.setup" could do better.

 

If you look on the SET menu on the M9, each line is divided into two columns for the parameter and its setting and the fixed width of the setting column depends on the longest setting text which is "DNG & JPG basic". The settings are left justified in the right hand column which then puts pressure on the space for the parameter.

 

My solution for this would be to right justify the settings in their column which would allow maximum space for the parameter name and avoid unnecessary abbreviations. I can't remember what the M240 menus look like but I hope Leica does better.

[stuny]

I could only guess at how well photography's "masters" would work out as beta testers, but we must remember that pros earn their living with their photography, and time is money, or reworded, time is living. To be beta testers they'd either have to give up some inome producing time, or be paid to be beta testers. Perhaps Leica included some paid pros as beta testers, but I certainly don't know.

[Peter Branch]

Your idea of german "local culture" sounds more like an asian one

 

Mike

 

I have spent much time working in the German "Culture" but I accept that this is not the appropriate word to use in this context. Shows how difficult it can be to convey such concepts in any language.

 

However, having thought about it, I think “Pride” comes closer. In common with many German organisations Leica is, I understand, very proud of its ability to speak, write and work in “English”, also known sometimes as IBL or International Business Language.

[luele]

Contest

 

Complete this phrase:

 

I would be a good Beta tester because ...

 

I live near Solms, I had Leicas from 13 Year on, I like my M8 and M9 and .. isn't that enough?

 

Michael

[Lightwrangler]

Leica is, I understand, very proud of its ability to speak, write and work in “English”, also known sometimes as IBL or International Business Language.

 

Most german companies with important international branches do have english as official office language. A big step for them and huge costs, because this means virtually everything from inhouse-newsletters up to secret business plans must be translated to english. I doubt Leica has english as office language - yet. "Pride" is not the right word IMHO, "cost" would be better suited.

 

Mike

[Erik Gunst Lund]

I don't think it is technically two AA filters, but essentially this is right. For a good technical explanation and comparison see here: LumoLabs -- Nikon D800 AA filter vs. D800E -- Whitepaper

Thanks for the link! I hadn't read that before.

[masjah]

Contest

 

Complete this phrase:

 

I would be a good Beta tester because ...

 

..... I could guarantee to b****r it up were it possible so to do. Leica really do need at least one idiot like me to give it a good thrashing. (Are you listening?)

[mjh]

Assembly language on the

PDP 11/7? Did you use the guide written by Gerald Cichanowski? It was published in several languages.

I’m not sure as this was many years ago (obviously). After that course on assembly language I never got a chance to do any serious programming on the PDP 11 but when I turned to the Motorola 68000 I realized its assembly language was somewhat similar to that of the PDP 11. Programming the 68000 was fun, whereas I shuddered whenever I saw assembly code for Intel processors.

[pico]

I’m not sure as this was many years ago (obviously). After that course on assembly language I never got a chance to do any serious programming on the PDP 11 but when I turned to the Motorola 68000 I realized its assembly language was somewhat similar to that of the PDP 11. Programming the 68000 was fun, whereas I shuddered whenever I saw assembly code for Intel processors.

 

Moving to program the 68000 series was very wise and could provide a very long career path.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[tgm]

Six weeks ago I saw two comparison shots—same subject, same lighting, one taken with the new M, the other with the Canon EOS 1DX, both set to ISO 6400/39°. The M shot was better. By a small margin only—serious pixel-peeping required to notice—but better nonetheless.

 

 

Very interesting, where did you saw the prints or screen shots?

 

Thomas

[01af]

Six weeks ago I saw two comparison shots—same subject, same lighting, one taken with the new M, the other with the Canon EOS 1DX, both set to ISO 6400/39°. The M shot was better. By a small margin only—serious pixel-peeping required to notice—but better nonetheless.

Very interesting, where did you see the prints or screen shots?

On the screen of the laptop computer of a Leica representative at a 2-day workshop in Solms. He was very proud that their new camera (with premature firmware!) beats the current high-end Canon EOS model with regard to high-ISO noise.

 

But then, the EOS 1DX can go far beyond ISO 6400/39° while the Leica M cannot. And those sample shots were taken in fairly good light—i. e. moderate contrast and no seriously underexposed shadows. So the fact that the M looked better than the 1DX in these particular high-ISO shots does not necessarily mean it will look better under all possible circumstances. More testing required. But what we saw definitely is a good start ...