Unprofessional Leica support . . .

[Guest Walt]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

I've attempted, for the third time, with Leica USA to to clarify the M8/Elmarit 50 issue. Again I've received an inattentive, perfunctory and inadequate response. If Leica wishes to regain any segment of the professional market, they really must do better than this in supporting the equipment. To whose attention should this issue be presented? I find it very discouraging. I've appended the last series of emails with Leica USA below. (They are, of course, in reverse order.)

 

Jim-

 

When you say "not recommended" that does not sound like "cannot be used."

For example, I know the current 90 Elmar can be used on the M8 and I am

doing that. For a professional camera more professional support is required

and that means some confidence in the customer and some detail in the

response. So, exactly what is the objection to the 50mm Elmarit? Will it

hit the sensor? Must it be attached to the camera in the extended position

and only then collapsed so that it does hit the sides? What will it do and

why is it not recommended? As a professional user of Leica cameras since

about 1965, I see Leica digging its own grave with this kind of response.

Please!

 

Thank you,

Walt Odets

 

 

----- Original Message -----

From: "Technical Info" <technicalinfo at leicacamerausa.com>

To: "Walt Odets" <odets at Comcast.net>

Sent: Monday, March 19, 2007 7:26 PM

Subject: RE: Current Elmar-M 50 mm

 

 

Good Evening,

I have attached a list of current and discontinued lenses that can be

coded...

Colapsable lenses are not recommended for the M8...

Thanks... Jim

 

 

James Butler / Technical Info

 

Leica Camera Inc.

 

1 Pearl Court/ Unit A / Allendale, NJ 07401

 

Leica Camera AG - Home

 

technicalinfo at leicacamerausa.com <mailto:technicalinfo at leicacamerausa.com>

 

This message contains privileged and confidential information.

 

IF IT WAS SENT TO YOU BY MISTAKE, DO NOT READ IT.

 

Instead, please notify the sender by reply e-mail, and delete this e-mail.

 

Unauthorized dissemination, forwarding or copying of this e-mail is strictly

prohibited.

 

 

________________________________

 

From: Walt Odets [mailto:odets at comcast.net]

Sent: Sun 3/18/2007 11:24 PM

To: Technical Info

Subject: Current Elmar-M 50 mm

 

 

 

Please advise if the current 50mm Elmar-M can be used and collapsed on the

M8.

 

 

With thanks,

Walt Odets

[dfarkas]

Walt,

 

The current 50mm f/2.8 Elmar works fine on the M8 (just like the 90 macro). This lens will not hit the sensor or the shutter blades when collapsed. It is only the much older version that will give you a problem.

 

Hope this helps.

 

David

[4season]

Walt,

 

I think Jim's answer is pretty clear: You can use the lens, but collapse it at your own risk. Mine (current model) can only be collapsed partway before it comes in contact with something (not the shutter). Others report success, but clearances are tight at best. If there's a clear way to know in advance which combo of lens and camera body has adequate clearance and which don't, I haven't heard of it.

 

Jeff

[ho_co]

Walt--

I spoke to Leica Technical about this wording some time ago, and the answer I got over the phone was, "Howard, I personally would not put any collapsible lens on my M8 except the 90 macro."

 

I'm guessing that some of the current Elmars probably sit a little differently in their mounts, judging from what David and Jeff say above. One might be of a 52mm focal length, another 51mm, for example, and the mounts might differ slightly. In that case, Leica couldn't make a blanket statement.

 

Just try it gently--your lens on your camera. If you feel any pressure, you're probably better off not collapsing it. If it doesn't run into something, you're home free.

 

--HC

[ken_tanaka]

From: Walt Odets

Sent: Sun 3/18/2007 11:24 PM

To: Technical Info

Subject: Current Elmar-M 50 mm

 

Please advise if the current 50mm Elmar-M can be used and collapsed on the

M8.

 

With thanks,

Walt Odets

 

From: "Technical Info" <technicalinfo at leicacamerausa.com>

To: "Walt Odets" <odets at Comcast.net>

Sent: Monday, March 19, 2007 7:26 PM

Subject: RE: Current Elmar-M 50 mm

 

Good Evening,

I have attached a list of current and discontinued lenses that can be

coded...

Colapsable lenses are not recommended for the M8...

Thanks... Jim

 

James Butler / Technical Info

Leica Camera Inc.

1 Pearl Court/ Unit A / Allendale, NJ 07401

 

What in that response raised your indignity? Looks like a pretty damn fast, accurate and concise response to me. Yes, the spelling and grammar are rather illiterate but that's pretty much the norm with young men (< 40) today. Just what type of response did you expect to your 1-sentence query?

[ho_co]

Since there are at least three owners of the current Elmar 50 reading this thread, let me ask:

 

Does the 50/2.8 have the actual focal length engraving that most Leica lenses longer than 35mm have? If so, it's the two digits engraved just after the infinity mark, at 90 degrees to the distance engravings, representing the last full millimeter and the first tenth of the actual focal length.

 

For example:

91 would mean 49.1;

00 would mean 50.0;

13 would mean 51.3.

 

I think today there is virtually no variation from sample to sample, so there's no need any longer to list the actual focal length. But if there's a variation, it might explain why David and Jeff have different results collapsing the lens.

 

--HC

[rob_x2004]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

This message contains privileged and confidential information.

 

IF IT WAS SENT TO YOU BY MISTAKE, DO NOT READ IT.

 

Instead, please notify the sender by reply e-mail, and delete this e-mail.

 

Unauthorized dissemination, forwarding or copying of this e-mail is strictly

prohibited.

 

Eeeeehhh....I guess these days....

[stunsworth]

Perhaps Leica want to avoid the situation where someone thinks they have the latest version of the lens but hasn't. They collapse the lens and it damages the shutter.

[jaapv]

This is a funny situation: I unwittingly (I should have read the manual I presume) ordered the Elmar-M 50/2.8 collapsible as my 30% lens, and it got duly delivered, coded and all. In the booklet with the lens, which I did read as it is rather short , there is a warning against collapsing the lens on the M5 and CL but nothing about the M8.So I used -and collapsed- it as intended for a week and only then happened to see the relevant passage in the M8 manual And indeed it works and collapses just fine on both my bodies. I think, given these circumstances, that Leica does not know what to advise themselves, so to be at the safe side, issues a blanket warning. It appears though that there is no problem with this lens.

[SteveP]

Walt,

 

It is only the much older version that will give you a problem.

 

David

 

As has been photographically documented in another thread here, the newer 50 Elmar is actually *longer* than the older model...

 

C'mon folks - it's in the M8 manual. Do not collapse any lens except the 90 macro. That seems pretty plain to me. Sure you can get away with it, probably, on most lenses, most of the time. Just like you can drive with half the amount of air required in one tire, most of the time...

[j. borger]

And indeed it works and collapses just fine on both my bodies. I think, given these circumstances, that Leica does not know what to advise themselves, so to be at the safe side, issues a blanket warning. It appears though that there is no problem with this lens.

Also CAREFUL tried at infinity focus i assume, where the lens most likely intrudes deeper into the camera (at least that was the case with my summitar) .... just to make sure it really is safe....

[k_g_wolf ✝]

>> Walt

 

The problems come with the older collapsible type of lenses. If you want to use one of these, do what the M5- manual recommends:

Attach a piece of dynotape (??sp) around the barrel so the lens can be pushed back a bit, but not to the end of the barrel.

 

That´s the price you have to pay for the nice circumstance, that even 50+ year old lenses can be used on current cameras. To a person new to the LEICA-system it is complicated to explain the difference between a 50 mm ELMAR from 1957 and one from 2007. Better to be careful, those things are too expensive to be ruined by a single lenscollaps. Be patient with those LEICA-people, they tried to be professional and told you what they had to, to protect your gear.

 

 

Best

[marknorton]

In the interests of trying to resolve this, I've just measured the depth from the face of the lens mount into the camera, up to the rail which runs across the bottom of the shutter. Answer: 23.21 mm. Ths shutter sits behind this, maybe 1mm.

 

If you have the 50/4, you should be able to judge then whether you can collapse it. Assuming the diameter of the barrel doesn't affect it, I personally would be happy if the depth was less than 22mm.

[stunsworth]

An alternative to the tape is to use an elastic band wrapped around the lens barrel. This won't potentially leave a deposit behind when removed unlike tape.

[jaapv]

Also CAREFUL tried at infinity focus i assume, where the lens most likely intrudes deeper into the camera (at least that was the case with my summitar) .... just to make sure it really is safe....

 

Always at infinity focus, and not carefully, as I was not aware there could be a problem....

In the interests of trying to resolve this, I've just measured the depth from the face of the lens mount into the camera, up to the rail which runs across the bottom of the shutter. Answer: 23.21 mm. Ths shutter sits behind this, maybe 1mm.

 

If you have the 50/4, you should be able to judge then whether you can collapse it. Assuming the diameter of the barrel doesn't affect it, I personally would be happy if the depth was less than 22mm.

 

 

I measured the distance from the flange of the mount to the fully-collapsed depth of my 2.8/50 at infinity very carefully: 20.85 mm. Afterwards, of course

[lct]

...The current 50mm f/2.8 Elmar works fine on the M8 (just like the 90 macro). This lens will not hit the sensor or the shutter blades when collapsed. It is only the much older version that will give you a problem...

Which older version do you refer to?

Mine (1962, right) is shorter than the current one (2004, left).

 

[rob_x2004]

What is the advantage of the collapsable 50? They deliver a different look people like?

[albertknappmd]

I feel that Leica's response was timely and appropriate. Use the lens but collapse it at your own risk is what they are saying....

[george +]

For whatever it is worth, I do not consider Jim Butler's quoted response "unprofessional". He was quoting the official Leica position, which is probably all the information available to him at this time.

 

But you should know that the same Jim Butler appears a bit overloaded with all the e-mails he gets from us. This last week-end I had e-mails from him at all hours on both Saturday and Sunday including one at 03:51 and another at 22:21.

 

Leica was hit with an incredible workload that they did not count on. And they - the company - could have done better in preparing for, and handling this onrush. But the Jim Butlers of Leica are busting their guts for their customers and their company and it is high time that we recognize their personal efforts.

[Advertisement]

Hallo,

Look here: Interesting Leica gear

[jaapv]

What is the advantage of the collapsable 50? They deliver a different look people like?

 

With the lens collapsed the camera fits exactly into the pocket of my skiing suit. No other lens does (well, maybe the new 28/2.8. But that lens is less suitable for the shots I tend to take in that situation) It is a fine lens and gives great results (when extended )