01af Posted November 15, 2012 Share #21 Posted November 15, 2012 Advertisement (gone after registration) I saw a large Leica dealer in Germany last week, and reportedly the lens is very very difficult to produce and up to 95/100 lenses do not pass the final quality control.VERY Interesting. I wonder how that ratio is with other lenses. And I wonder if the statement is true in the first place. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted November 15, 2012 Posted November 15, 2012 Hi 01af, Take a look here Any 50mm APO-Summicron-ASPH Deliveries Yet?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
k_g_wolf ✝ Posted November 15, 2012 Share #22 Posted November 15, 2012 Ivar referred to a single lenselement out of +/- 8 (the apo-aspherical whatsoever) needed for the lineup, not the whole assembled SUMMICRON-lens. It seems to be near to impossible to arrive at the surfaceprecision which is required. That´s why so many of the individual aspherical-elements are rejected by QC. At least so far. Regards GEORG Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtomalty Posted November 16, 2012 Share #23 Posted November 16, 2012 I saw a large Leica dealer in Germany last week, and reportedly the lens is very very difficult to produce and up to 95/100 lenses do not pass the final quality control. . If this is,in fact,true then what a phenomenal waste of resources and manpower. Mark Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Ash Posted November 16, 2012 Share #24 Posted November 16, 2012 I agree with Mark. I suppose that the 95/100 waste claim is utterly bs and only suitable to built a myth. Regards Steve Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted November 16, 2012 Share #25 Posted November 16, 2012 I agree with Mark. I suppose that the 95/100 waste claim is utterly bs and only suitable to built a myth. Regards Steve Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk + 1 .... such a rejection ratio would mean not a superb QC process, but a grossly wrong manufacturing process... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hillavoider Posted November 16, 2012 Share #26 Posted November 16, 2012 +1000 total marketing bs leica would be broke in a week with that rejection ratio, any manufacturer would be Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MarcRF Posted November 16, 2012 Share #27 Posted November 16, 2012 Advertisement (gone after registration) if leica struggles with the tolerances needed for this lens it is a statement for itself and the quality they are trying to achieve with this lens. I strongly disagree with the suggestion that there would be something wrong with the production process. the machines needed to produce the other lenses they currently produce are so well calibrated that I can hardly believe a 5% success ratio I've met quite a lot of leica dealers and unless the statement comes from the company itself I can hardly doubt anyone of them. it's quite nice for a dealer to sell leica because with such statements they can heat up the myth of the quality easily. people believe it because it's Leica... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
semi-ambivalent Posted November 17, 2012 Share #28 Posted November 17, 2012 I agree with Mark. I suppose that the 95/100 waste claim is utterly bs and only suitable to built a myth. Regards Steve Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk I think it most certainly is. As a young man I had a friend who ground a telescope mirror, turning a spherical surface into a parabaloid to within millions of an inch and checking it with a pinhole light source and a razor blade. In his basement. Leica can certainly do better than than, and en masse too.Yes Steve, myth it is. But handy to have, however good the lens actually is. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IWC Doppel Posted November 17, 2012 Share #29 Posted November 17, 2012 Lets assume that all the parts are within tolerence before assembly, then accumulation of tolerances is greater than the required output. Perhaps measurement of all before assembly is greater effort/cost than an iterative build approach. I do suspect if its right first time 1 in 20 times there will be a lot if friction between the design and assembly teams Perhaps there is a slight assembly redesign going on as we speak Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IWC Doppel Posted November 17, 2012 Share #30 Posted November 17, 2012 Oh I doubt anything that passes QA before assembly goes in the bin if the built lens is not good enough Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
manolo Posted November 17, 2012 Share #31 Posted November 17, 2012 Perhaps they are redesigning it to be a 50 apo macro summicron-asph. (a la 100 apo macro R ) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rramesh Posted November 23, 2012 Share #32 Posted November 23, 2012 Outsourced to SLR Magic? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Branch Posted November 23, 2012 Share #33 Posted November 23, 2012 There are literally hundreds of specialist optical companies around the world who could with complete confidence produce a prototype lens similar to the 50mm Apo-Summicron. One, Davin Optronics, is not far from me here in Watford, UK. The key point is what it would cost; sums greater that £50k (GBP) get mentioned for even relatively simple designs. I know absolutely nothing about the Leica prototype 50mm but it would not be correct to suggest that Leica have never had such problems with production that a lens was discontinued. The f1.2 Noctilux was notoriously variable – it really did depend which one you got. It was dropped and reported to have made a significant loss – though such things are extremely difficult to define. There was an Apo zoom lens which sold for a vast sum but was dropped very soon after its introduction because – it was stated – of production difficulties. A lens apparently similar to the 50mm Apo has been talked about by Leica insiders for at least the last 6 years. Reports in the UK were that the performance was quite incredible but it would never be listed because of the extraordinary cost resulting from the extreme precision required to build a lens that actually, rather than theoretically, performed better that the standard 50mm Summicron. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Geschlecht Posted November 23, 2012 Share #34 Posted November 23, 2012 Hello Everybody, That Asph-Zoom was the 35-70, F2.8 Best Regards, Michael Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thighslapper Posted November 28, 2012 Share #35 Posted November 28, 2012 The 95/100 figure may be well be correct...... but that doesn't mean the 95 failures go in the bin...... More likely most will need re-alignment and adjustment .... and a few possibly complete dissasembly and different lens elements substituted. The main problem will be the sheer man-hours involved in producing the correctly adjusted final product..... thats what make the price so high, not the actual material.... and it will no doubt be higher still if there are persistent production issues. From what I gather the Noctilux line consists of only a handful of technicians who have the experience and expertise to assemble and adjust to the required tolerances. The Apo 50 will no doubt be the same and it may take time to get up to speed and reliable assembly. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivar B Posted November 29, 2012 Share #36 Posted November 29, 2012 I only had the information from a dealer and I have not contacted Leica for verification. There is obviously a problem, though, as no lenses reach the market. The situation was the same when the 0.95/50 was launched and as I recall they needed some time to master the coating process. A friend of mine tested to copies of the 2/50 Apo during Photokina and their optical performance was very different. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thighslapper Posted November 29, 2012 Share #37 Posted November 29, 2012 I only had the information from a dealer and I have not contacted Leica for verification. There is obviously a problem, though, as no lenses reach the market. The situation was the same when the 0.95/50 was launched and as I recall they needed some time to master the coating process. A friend of mine tested to copies of the 2/50 Apo during Photokina and their optical performance was very different. I find it hard to believe Leica would announce a flagship product without being confident it could be produced reliably and to a consistent standard. The only question is the rate of production and when they appear...... I suspect in small batches very intermittently over the next year and at the sort of level that the Noctilux runs at...... If I placed an order with Leica Mayfair today I would not be expecting to see one till 2014 from Leicas past track record..... Having said that I have managed to source all the lenses I wanted very quickly by persistent phoning and pestering, including a 50/0.95 .... presumably because a lot of people lose interest/go bankrupt/die on the waiting list before things appear or the dealer gets fed up trying to contact people. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent M10 Posted November 30, 2012 Share #38 Posted November 30, 2012 Dale Photo has just reported that it's received word from Leica that the lens is being delayed. I don't know if this means until March, or later on in 2013. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
algrove Posted December 1, 2012 Share #39 Posted December 1, 2012 Apparently no new release date was given. Now I have more time to acquire R lenses. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonki-M Posted December 1, 2012 Share #40 Posted December 1, 2012 http://www.reddotforum.com/content.php/310-Leica-APO-Summicron-M-50mm-f-2-ASPH-Deliveries-Delayed it's official. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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