CalArts 99 Posted November 14, 2012 Share #21 Posted November 14, 2012 Advertisement (gone after registration) There seems to be plenty of stuff like this out there on the interwebs: http://limitedunlimited.nl/ And apparently Arca Swiss is committed to producing new analog view cameras with what it's seeing as an increase in interest. A report from this past Photokina re: film and what the manufacturers are saying.... In German: APHOG - Forum • Thema anzeigen - Bericht: Film auf der Photokina 2012 In English: Photokina 2012: Report (English version) fwiw, my lab has seen an increase in film processing since January of this year. Their Refrema dip and dunk E-6 machine is running every day. I drop off film before 11 am and I can have it back by 3 pm. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted November 14, 2012 Posted November 14, 2012 Hi CalArts 99, Take a look here The Disappearance of Darkness. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
stephen.w Posted November 14, 2012 Share #22 Posted November 14, 2012 The color palette of film is unsurpassed, imho. Yes, one gets used to digital color but it's really not the same. e.g., try working with reds (as found in nature) in digital. Digital also has a clinical and artificial look that always seems a bit off to my mind's eye.I completely agree. The young South African photographer and Magnum member Mikhael Subotzky, works exclusively with colour film AFAIK. Take a look at his Beaufort West book. (His images are also in the Magnum Contact Sheets book.) Some of the very finest work in colour being done today IMO. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stephen.w Posted November 14, 2012 Share #23 Posted November 14, 2012 The thing that used to concern me about the survival of film is that there were no new film cameras being produced other than plastic ones. But apart from the new MPs and M7s and Rollei TLRs that are still available, I see on the B&H website that there are two new Nikon film SLRs - one fully automated and weather-sealed and the other fully manual, with a mechanical shutter. I think that only reason that there are so few new film cameras being made is that there are so many great cameras going so cheaply on the second hand market. Nikon F100 35mm SLR Camera (Body Only) 1796 B&H Photo Video Nikon FM10 35mm SLR Camera with 35-70mm Lens 1689 B&H Photo Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CalArts 99 Posted November 14, 2012 Share #24 Posted November 14, 2012 afaik, these are the two Nikon and Canon flagship 35mm film bodies that are still being produced. Fully automated like current flagship DSLRs or can be used 100% manually with legacy lenses. The F6 is basically a D3 but using film instead. As of early 2012, the Canon EOS 1v was still being produced. F6 from Nikon Canon U.S.A. : Support & Drivers : EOS-1v The F6 was introduced in 2004 which is relatively late in the game considering that digital was already the direction of camera manufacturers. The FM10 and F100 are older cameras with the F100 introduced in 1999 and the FM10 in 1995. The F100 was officially discontinued in 2006 (These are the only Nikon film cameras currently produced: Nikon | Imaging Products | Film SLR Cameras) The F100 can still be found as new (e.g., B+H) The FM10 isn't made by Nikon but is manufactured by Cosina and re-branded as a Nikon. The 'real' Nikon FM was last produced in 2001 with the final iteration known as the FM2N. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CalArts 99 Posted November 14, 2012 Share #25 Posted November 14, 2012 The thing that used to concern me about the survival of film is that there were no new film cameras being produced other than plastic ones. But apart from the new MPs and M7s and Rollei TLRs that are still available.... btw, don't forget the medium format and large format cameras. Fuji introduced a new 6x6/6x7 roll film rangefinder folding camera just recently (also sold as a Cosina/Voigtlander Bessa III.) There are lots of medium format cameras and plenty of large format cameras still being produced. And Arca Swiss is coming out with a new ultra large format camera. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andym911 Posted November 14, 2012 Share #26 Posted November 14, 2012 Andy, I'll PM you with details if you like. Colour & B&W set up. The problem, if you were interested, would be getting it to you, which would probably cost a lot more than its worth now, even though it was state-of-the-art about 12 years ago! peter....please do and lets see.. thanks Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter H Posted November 14, 2012 Share #27 Posted November 14, 2012 Advertisement (gone after registration) peter....please do and lets see.. thanks Andy, I've PM'd you. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyedward Posted November 15, 2012 Share #28 Posted November 15, 2012 I just bought another M4 last week. The color palette of film is unsurpassed, imho. Yes, one gets used to digital color but it's really not the same. e.g., try working with reds (as found in nature) in digital. Digital also has a clinical and artificial look that always seems a bit off to my mind's eye. Humans are analog and most of the things we do everyday, and most of the world we encounter, is analog. But paradigms shift and the shift is towards immediacy and convenience. It's always pretty much been like that throughout history. Anything that's easier and more immediate will be embraced readily by most people and that's to be expected. Yet for every story of film's demise there is another story of somebody discovering film for the first time. But film has been around forever so those stories aren't sensational enough and aren't noticed. In a city like Los Angeles, film is everywhere and labs are plentiful (and many students in the college and university art departments here are using film.) I think the only thing interesting about this 'Disappearance of Darkness' project is that it's another dialogue of industrialization, technology, and profitability. But the factories of Kodak being torn down is just a tiny part of the overall story. Artists like Edward Burtynsky (Zeitgeist Films | Manufactured Landscapes) have already put this into a much broader context. Which gives a more accurate representation of color, digital or film? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted November 15, 2012 Share #29 Posted November 15, 2012 Humans are more like a sensor than like film - the eye has "pixels"... I just bought another M4 last week. The color palette of film is unsurpassed, imho. Yes, one gets used to digital color but it's really not the same. e.g., try working with reds (as found in nature) in digital. Digital also has a clinical and artificial look that always seems a bit off to my mind's eye. Humans are analog and most of the things we do everyday, and most of the world we encounter, is analog. But paradigms shift and the shift is towards immediacy and convenience. It's always pretty much been like that throughout history. Anything that's easier and more immediate will be embraced readily by most people and that's to be expected. Yet for every story of film's demise there is another story of somebody discovering film for the first time. But film has been around forever so those stories aren't sensational enough and aren't noticed. In a city like Los Angeles, film is everywhere and labs are plentiful (and many students in the college and university art departments here are using film.) I think the only thing interesting about this 'Disappearance of Darkness' project is that it's another dialogue of industrialization, technology, and profitability. But the factories of Kodak being torn down is just a tiny part of the overall story. Artists like Edward Burtynsky (Zeitgeist Films | Manufactured Landscapes) have already put this into a much broader context. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico Posted November 15, 2012 Share #30 Posted November 15, 2012 Humans are more like a sensor than like film - the eye has "pixels"... The eye does not make the image we see. . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sblitz Posted November 15, 2012 Share #31 Posted November 15, 2012 Congrats on buying the M4. A great camera, poetry in a mechanical process As for which reproduces the best color? It is an angels on the head of a pin question. To me the moods created by color film is a better representation of what I want to show. But m9 color is pretty darn good too Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter H Posted November 15, 2012 Share #32 Posted November 15, 2012 The eye does not make the image we see. . In that sense, neither do sensors or film, do they? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico Posted November 15, 2012 Share #33 Posted November 15, 2012 In that sense, neither do sensors or film, do they? Correct, nothing in the camera realm, digital or analog, is like the eye except for the lens, and even that is quite different. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
plasticman Posted November 15, 2012 Share #34 Posted November 15, 2012 Humans are more like a sensor than like film - the eye has "pixels"... This is such an entirely bogus analogy that there's really nowhere to start arguing against it... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted November 16, 2012 Share #35 Posted November 16, 2012 The eye does not make the image we see. . True - your hardware - brain and software - mind does it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted November 16, 2012 Share #36 Posted November 16, 2012 This is such an entirely bogus analogy that there's really nowhere to start arguing against it... The eye has a pattern of photoreceptor cells, and is an RGB device. The system is read out electrically and the signal transmitted to the brain for processing. This is mimicked by sensor-processor technology, and not by accident. Of course there are many differences, but the basic idea was taken from nature. Film is a completely different technology, as we all know. There is no analogy to a biological process. (except maybe pigmentation of the skin when sunbathing. But the image created that way will not go beyond a bikini mark ) http://www.rags-int-inc.com/PhotoTechStuff/CameraEye/ You should do a google search on the topic. A few interesting articles on the subject. And don't take life so seriously. These are lighthearted posts. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CalArts 99 Posted November 16, 2012 Share #37 Posted November 16, 2012 Which gives a more accurate representation of color, digital or film? I use transparency film in 4x5 sheet size almost exclusively. Color temp is an issue of course and having WB adjustments in a digital camera is much easier than using gels, etc.. But aside from that, the color from reversal film I find to be much more realistic. If you include a Macbeth in the scene, the reversal film (with proper light balance) tends to pick up all the color samples a lot more accurately for the most part (using a neutral bias color reversal film.) With digital there tends to also be inaccurate samples in addition to those that look correct. And it seems like I always tend to have issues with reds when using digital, which require lots of post work to get close to looking natural. But it's just my opinion and only based on what I see and what I'm comfortable working with. The M9 colors are okay but I personally prefer film and the overall look and accuracy of film's color renditions. Congrats on buying the M4. A great camera, poetry in a mechanical process Thanks, it's an absolute pleasure to use. The M4 was the first Leica I ever used (as a teenager working for the late Josephine von Miklos, who introduced me to Leica.) True - your hardware - brain and software - mind does it. Which is why I explicitly said "to my mind's eye" and not simply 'to my eye.' The brain does the deciphering. Anyway, aside from all the science and all the 'which is better?' stuff, people need to use what they are comfortable with and what works for them. Every artist I know uses a choice of materials for very personal reasons. Whatever allows one to produce a specific end result is all that matters. And that can include the personal enjoyment of using specific materials, too. Otherwise it's a dialogue that just seems to go around in circles forever..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanG Posted November 16, 2012 Share #38 Posted November 16, 2012 There is nothing wrong with looking at film as a preferred medium for a given artist. Whether more will embrace this view in the future is hard to say. But I can't see any possibility that film technology or cameras will improve in significant ways or get smaller or easier to use. Thus the reasons why people will choose to use a film camera will be much different than why many choose a digital camera. However digital technology has opened up an entirely new world of photography and film making that is very exciting to many people and has little to do with artistic concern over which color or grain structure best communicates a specific feeling. You can now make a movie like this. This was made with a small hobby DJI F450 quadrocopter, a GoPro hard mounted with no special camera gimbal, using a live video feed off the camera to steer the machine via basic RC gear. You could put together the entire kit for $1500-$2000. There are many other ways these small cameras are expanding our capabilities and vision. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
erl Posted November 19, 2012 Share #39 Posted November 19, 2012 "The Disappearance Of Darkness" is just another expression for the 'dawning of a new day'. My day dawned with the purchase of a 'new' old 1952 Leica 111f. this alone has put flight to the shadows of doubt and despair. My darkroom will soon be working overtime again. Finally, it satisfies an old teenage dream when I saw one in a camera store window but could not even pronounce the price! I settled for a box brownie at the time. Film will last as long as pencil and paper. (and I will be immortal !) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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