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Conclusions on late models M8?


jrc

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Has anybody been able to draw any conclusions from the survey and the various other discussions about whether the later model M8s are less likely to experience Sudden Camera Death than the early models? Instead of buying an M8 backup, when my camera crashed, I bought a Pentax and 3 lenses. Between you and me, compared to the M8, the Pentax ain't cuttin' it. So if I bought an M8 backup now, would it tend to last longer than the one that's in Solms?

 

JC

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The camera (K10) works fine, and there are lots of things to like about it, but the shots themselves seem softer. It's hard to put your finger on it, but to me they seem to lack a sparkle that you get from Leica shots; also, I'm afraid I've gotten used to shooting in pretty low light, pretty casually, and that's tougher with the K10. ISO 1600 is a little crude. But, I've been carrying it in my briefcase every day, since the M8 went away to Solms, and I've yet to have a single malfunction of any kind: that's certainly a benefit.

 

One difference I felt immediately is the menus. I much prefer the simplicity of the Leica, though I understand why Pentax has all that stuff (competitive reasons, more than necessity, I think.) One thing Leica could benefit from is taking a long look at the adjustable diopter. And could you imagine an M9 with in-camera image stabilization, like the K10? You could shoot in the dark...

 

I know I've just complained about the softness of the lenses, but it would be neat if there were a Pentax-to-M adapter that wasn't too thick, so that you could use these pancake lenses on an M. They are tiny...and a 43mm f1.9 would be pretty useful on an M.

 

JC

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My M8 is 3100977, that is early as serial numbers go, although I bought it in late January.

I have not had any problems, no lockups, no failures of any kind.

I was walking around yesterday morning in Asheville NC with a temp of 28°F for about a hour. Into a coffee shop for 10 minute and back out in the cold. It did not have any glitches then or afterwards walking around Tallulah falls/gorge in the mid afternoon.

My unit has never failed to work at any time.

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I don't know if conclusions can be drawn from the survey other than the fact that at 25-33% failure rate this camera in its present state is not reliable enough to be trusted where client fees and the photographer's reputation are at stake.

 

I seem to remember anecdotally that a number of people have talked about just receiving their M8's and have had the dreaded lockup. Some were able to recover and some were not. I think one of the things the survey could help sort out is how many of the people who have experience the lock up had to return the unit to Solms for repair?

 

Adding my personal experience I have one of the earliest M8's having received it on November 8th and have had no problems after several thousand shots. It is still in the original state, i.e. not upgraded for the banding problem and running firmware version 1.092.

 

Although I am not a professional shooter I do sell fine art prints and when I go on an extended shoot e.g. the three week trip I am about to make to Bryce, Zion, Cedar Break, Captiol Reef and the Grand Canyon, I cannot afford to have that expensive a trip go bankrupt because of camera failure. So I have bought a second body since i am totally committed to the M8. Sad that such an expensive piece of equipment has so many failures but the files are so good and the equipment so portable I am willing to hang in until the issues are resolved.

 

The most positive news I got from the survey is that if the battery/SD Card issue gets resolved it will eliminate the largest percentage of failures by far.

 

Just my humble observations and opinions

 

Woody

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We probably need the data that is only available to Leica to draw conclusions on early versus late production (if you can call 3 months into life, "late").

 

Drawing conclusions from the surveys taken here, it seems that the problems are random. Thinking about the battery survey and the complaints concerning batteries, it may be that there is a problem with the battery chosen by Leica -- or perhaps a problem with the first versions of the firmware.

 

A friend of mine took an M8 to Antactica recently and had NO problems.

 

We know Leica makes things to last forever. Their conservative nature (or did I get that wrong? :) ) would lead them to choose partners who would also favor longevity in their products.

 

Let's hope the problems are growing pains, and related to things like the interaction of firmware and battery circuitry.

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I have a bit of a problem with classing the "died but recovered"category as failure rate. Partly because I have not yet seen any digital camera that did not have to be reset or battery out or whatever at some point, but any digital appliance seems to need switch-off-switch-on at some point. Plus, it is hard to determine how much user error is hidden in that group.

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Woody I'm not sure where you get the 25-33% number of failures.

But I would suspect it is much lower.

Seeing as it is still hard to find a M8 at almost any dealer and they are in the 3105-6XXX range that tells me that at least 5000 have been sold. There are not 5000 M8 owner coming to this forum and from the not totally inclusive survey conducted with only 276 replies there was only 26? that had total failures and 176 that had NO failures of any kind. that would leave 74 that had some hang-ups but could recover from it.

That 26 # is about 7%+/- of those that replied to the survey

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Woody I'm not sure where you get the 25-33% number of failures.

But I would suspect it is much lower.

Seeing as it is still hard to find a M8 at almost any dealer and they are in the 3105-6XXX range that tells me that at least 5000 have been sold. There are not 5000 M8 owner coming to this forum and from the not totally inclusive survey conducted with only 276 replies there was only 26? that had total failures and 176 that had NO failures of any kind. that would leave 74 that had some hang-ups but could recover from it.

That 26 # is about 7%+/- of those that replied to the survey

 

Any data on the serial numbers of the 26 total failures? Mine is one of them and the serial number is 31003xx, very early. Where can one see the results of the survey?

 

Alan

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...any digital appliance seems to need switch-off-switch-on at some point. Plus, it is hard to determine how much user error is hidden in that group.

 

Here's an example: One of our respected posters mentioned that his M8 woke up with 0 pictures left when that wasn't true. He removed and replaced the battery and had no subsequent trouble. Well, I had that problem, too. I had not put the bottom cover back on quite right, the left side was not notched in properly. The camera woke up with 0 pictures left and didn't tell me"the cover is off," because it wasn't off, it just wasn't on. I took the bottom cover off, removed the battery and replaced it to be sure, and have seen no further problems. That's a "is it plugged in?" sort of obvious user error, but compounded by the camera responding in an obscure way.

 

scott

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"So I have bought a second body since i am totally committed to the M8. Sad that such an expensive piece of equipment has so many failures but the files are so good and the equipment so portable I am willing to hang in until the issues are resolved.

 

The most positive news I got from the survey is that if the battery/SD Card issue gets resolved it will eliminate the largest percentage of failures by far."

_____

 

I'm totally with you. While I am not happy with the numerous glitches that have plagued the M8 since it's release last fall, like you I feel that "the files are so good and the equipment so portable I am willing to hang in until the issues are resolved."

 

What really concerns the be-jesus out of me is a 19-day trip I have planned for August-September to photograph in Chile, Easter Island (which happens to be the most isolated continuously-occupied place on earth), and Cusco, Machu Picchu, Lake Titicaca, and Arequipa in Peru. Once you get to any of these places, if something goes wrong, you're s.o.l. So I am going to hope that 1.10 and subsequent releases and some due diligence from Leica will make my M8 the highly reliable workhorse it needs to be, especially for the upcoming trip.

 

It would be nice to see the M8 become as reliable as possible so that all I have to do is worry about batteries, dropping my camera or a lens off a cliff, theft, dustry sensors, and psychotic SD cards. I'd be very happy if that was all I had to concern myself with. Wish I could afford a 2nd M8, but with a soon to be 18 year-old getting ready to attend a

$40M/yr. college, I'm lucky to have one.

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Just a short note from a recent owner.

Had the camera for just a week...no issues whatsoever, focus is good on all (28,35,50) lenses.No crashes or hang ups at all.

Am running 1.09 and serial number 31083xx.

 

cheers

andy:)

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A lot of people concerned about trips etc here. The smartest thing they can do is pick up a used M6 and haul along a few rolls of film (and film is still available just about anywhere though may not be pro grade will at least not "ruin" your trip). A spare M body fits nicely in the smallest Pelican case and of course uses all of your lenses. A good M6 TTL can be found for about $1100-$1400, less for the classic, and will probably always retain that value or thereabouts.

 

In other words, always have a backup!! Doesn't matter what camera, film or digital. Much cheaper than a plane flight back....

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Woody I'm not sure where you get the 25-33% number of failures.

But I would suspect it is much lower.

Seeing as it is still hard to find a M8 at almost any dealer and they are in the 3105-6XXX range that tells me that at least 5000 have been sold. There are not 5000 M8 owner coming to this forum and from the not totally inclusive survey conducted with only 276 replies there was only 26? that had total failures and 176 that had NO failures of any kind. that would leave 74 that had some hang-ups but could recover from it.

That 26 # is about 7%+/- of those that replied to the survey

 

Ed

 

As I said in my post I don't think we can draw any firm conclusions. The 25% -33% failure rate was based on the data from our forum survey. I have no idea what the failure population is for all of the M8's shipped. Only Leica knows for sure and only they can do what needs to be done to the body to make it MORE reliable whatever the current failure rate may be.

Woody

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