Tonki-M Posted October 3, 2012 Share #1 Â Posted October 3, 2012 Advertisement (gone after registration) lately, i've been very interested in acquiring older lens, thanks to the thread 'the view through older glass' please recommend me some of older lens and its characteristics. Â the one i've been looking at is the 5cm summarit f/1.5. Â thank you in advance. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted October 3, 2012 Posted October 3, 2012 Hi Tonki-M, Take a look here recommend old lens. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
lars_bergquist Posted October 3, 2012 Share #2  Posted October 3, 2012 All old lenses show more optical aberrations than the modern ones; and usually also more flare, internal reflections etc., especially if they are really old and uncoated (before 1946/47). So they all have their different quirks, and many people find these quirks charming. And who am I to question that? There's no disputing taste.  But it all comes down to individual, subjective taste. Old 5cm/50mm lenses are usuallt easiest to find. Favourites from the 1950's are the v.2 ('Rigid') Summicron, and the 3.5 and 2.8 Elmar lenses, but a Summarit or a v.1 Summilux (# below 1844001) will be interesting acquaintances. Do not use the Dual Range or Near Focus Summicron with a digital camera! If you don't want to actually drown in flare, do use the proper lens hoods.  Even older lenses for the M39mm thread mount can also be used with the proper adapter (Cosina-Voigtländer have them). If rangefinder coupled, they may even focus correctly. 50mm lenses do not usually require special in-camera correction with the M9. Have fun.  "Experience is what we have left when we have lost everything else."  The old man from the Kodachrome Age Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianv Posted October 3, 2012 Share #3  Posted October 3, 2012 The Summarit: figure that it will need a clean-lube-adjust (CLA) unless serviced recently. The inner surfaces tend to haze up, this can be cleaned. The coatings are soft, so look for one with a clean front and rear.  The Summarit was optimized for F2.8: wide-open, it will tend to front-focus. at F4, is as sharp as the contemperary Summicron.  I cleaned mine, and optimized for F1.5.  Wide-Open on the M9:  korea_f15_summarit by anachronist1, on Flickr  Korea2_f15_Summarit by anachronist1, on Flickr  F1.5: give an idea of flare:  Nikki_f15_summarit by anachronist1, on Flickr  At F4:  Nikki_f4_summarit by anachronist1, on Flickr  This one has some marks on the front element, but "not a problem". Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonki-M Posted October 4, 2012 Author Share #4 Â Posted October 4, 2012 thank you for both great reply. i'm interested because i'm looking for that special rendering of the old lens, especially wide open (ie swirly bokeh) i own modern leica glass (35 cron, 50 lux, both asph) but now look that classic rendition to go with my film M. Â how does the 50 summicron rigid renders pic wide open? i have no experience with it, but have read some working with it (thorsten review had 1 page on it, if i remember correctly) Â 50 summarit 1.5 seems like what i'm looking for, but second opinion would be lovely. thx again. Â ps. curious though, does the flare open wide at 1.5 contributes to the softness in the overall picture? or it is naturally soft wide open? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lars_bergquist Posted October 4, 2012 Share #5 Â Posted October 4, 2012 The old Summarit has generally low contrast wide open. Extremely fine detail is generally absent, fine detail is slightly soft. Stopping down improves definition radically, and the lens is quite good at 5.6 though not as crisp as a moden 50mm lens. Stopping down also reduces flare. If the lens is in good shape, you can have lots of fun with the old clunker. Â The old man from the Kodachrome Age Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianv Posted October 4, 2012 Share #6 Â Posted October 4, 2012 Both the collapsible Summicron and first type Rigid Summicron have more contrast, less flare. Swirly Bokeh: the Summarit and Summitar. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
250swb Posted October 4, 2012 Share #7 Â Posted October 4, 2012 Advertisement (gone after registration) I think if you want a lens that can still be sharp stopped down, yet gets a bit wild and gives a soft vintage look at the wider f/stops, then the 50mm Summitar is a good bet. It is a Jekyll and Hyde lens and small things can make big differences to the results, like hood or no-hood, f/2 or f/8, colour or B&W. But it is fun. Â Steve Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wizard Posted October 4, 2012 Share #8  Posted October 4, 2012 ... how does the 50 summicron rigid renders pic wide open? ...  That lens is actually quite good wide open, much better than the collapsible version. Stopped down there is not much difference.  Andy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianv Posted October 4, 2012 Share #9  Posted October 4, 2012 Collapsible Summicron, first version.  At F2, on the Leica M8:  Flower F2 Summ 104 by anachronist1, on Flickr  100% crop of above:  flower_f2_crop by anachronist1, on Flickr  Flowers_f2_Summ_104 by anachronist1, on Flickr Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianv Posted October 4, 2012 Share #10  Posted October 4, 2012 At F4:  Flower F4 Summ 104 by anachronist1, on Flickr  flowers_f4_summ_104 by anachronist1, on Flickr  100% crop at F4:  crop_f4_Summicron104 by anachronist1, on Flickr  This is an early thread mount lens, glass is clean but not perfect. The glass on my other two collapsible Summicrons - perfect. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted October 4, 2012 Share #11 Â Posted October 4, 2012 thank you for both great reply. i'm interested because i'm looking for that special rendering of the old lens, especially wide open (ie swirly bokeh) ..... how does the 50 summicron rigid renders pic wide open? i have no experience with it, but have read some working with it (thorsten review had 1 page on it, if i remember correctly) Â 50 summarit 1.5 seems like what i'm looking for, but second opinion would be lovely. thx again. ...... Â Summicron 50 rigid imho can be considered as a modern lens; a good alternative to the Summarit 1,5 (which can be difficult to find in really good conditions, both optically and mechanically) is the Summilux 50 1,4 (the 2nd version above 1844000) : really a pleasure wide open. Same can be said of the 1st Summicron 35 8 elements. Â Going to the real WAs, I am really pleased of the Summaron 2,8 cm f 5,6... a really tasteful creamy rendering. Â And for portraits... ... Elmar 90 f4 !!! They aren't costly and great value for money : on the other side of cost, the Summarex 85 1,5 is a gem in any sense. Â And (finally... one could never end speaking of old Leitz glass... ) : the golden rule of a lover of oldies is "you cannot have not an Elmar 5 cm" Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaybob Posted October 5, 2012 Share #12  Posted October 5, 2012 Rigid Summicron at f2 50th ASA 3200 Sony Nex 5 Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/189290-recommend-old-lens/?do=findComment&comment=2133242'>More sharing options...
Tonki-M Posted October 5, 2012 Author Share #13  Posted October 5, 2012 the rigid summicron seems to have a characteristic of the modern lens. i already own a 50 lux-m ASPH, the rigid cron isnt seem to be what i am looking for (pls point out if i'm wrong)  but then, that v1 collapsible cron !! that's exactly the look and characteristics that i'm seeking. thx for the wonderful samples. i've taken great interest in the v1 cron now  last night, i had a chat with a friend about this very topic. he also recommended the v1 cron or the summitar(if i can find one, i was getting an impression that it's rare?)  i will have a look at 90 elmar, since i still dont own a 90mm. sounds like a bargain. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaques Posted October 5, 2012 Share #14  Posted October 5, 2012 The collapsible Summicron is a real nice lens- and the compactness collapsed is a bonus- I got into this Nick Cave gig with my camera when they stopped a lot of DSLR folks: Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/189290-recommend-old-lens/?do=findComment&comment=2133263'>More sharing options...
tobey bilek Posted October 5, 2012 Share #15 Â Posted October 5, 2012 My Summarit, Summitar, 3.5 red scale elmar, 2.8 elmar from 1955 all work well. I have not RF lenses from other manufactures. Beware all these are close to modern by F4.0. Same for Nikkors and Zeiss and Canon. Â If you want low contrast and more pastel colors, buy a non coated lens. These never improve contrast upon stopping down. Xenon 1.5 and original elmars are non coated. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaybob Posted October 5, 2012 Share #16  Posted October 5, 2012 the rigid summicron seems to have a characteristic of the modern lens. i already own a 50 lux-m ASPH, the rigid cron isnt seem to be what i am looking for (pls point out if i'm wrong) but then, that v1 collapsible cron !! that's exactly the look and characteristics that i'm seeking. thx for the wonderful samples. i've taken great interest in the v1 cron now  last night, i had a chat with a friend about this very topic. he also recommended the v1 cron or the summitar(if i can find one, i was getting an impression that it's rare?)  i will have a look at 90 elmar, since i still dont own a 90mm. sounds like a bargain.  There's Lightroom Color noise reduction applied to the Rigid Summicron image that I shared up in post #12, NR that (in my opinion) drains some but not all of the character that the lens applies to the digital file, but ASA 1600 is the usual hard and fast ceiling as far as the NEX is concerned. That image is 3200, wide open and needed some help.  Less NR and more lens is preferable, otherwise it tends to look shopped and/or Canon-y. That rigid cron is a super low contrast, decidedly unmodern lens that in that particular COLOR photo, perhaps had a little too much Lightroom "correction" applied to it. To me, the out of focus areas (mostly the specular highlights) look unmodern as well, certainly different than my Nikkors. Most of the time, I prefer the look of BW with my older lenses, but depending on what you're shooting, sometimes color is good. I'm not about to go buy a monochrom, because I like the option.  Later, coated, Summitars or v1 collapsible cron, are definitely 2 less expensive alternatives. Hold out for a really really clean one and you will not be disappointed. Hoods help.  This example is a tad better Rigid Summicron 50 4000th f2 ISO 200 Sony NEX 5 LR 4 BW conversion Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/189290-recommend-old-lens/?do=findComment&comment=2133652'>More sharing options...
Tonki-M Posted October 5, 2012 Author Share #17 Â Posted October 5, 2012 oh yes, you are right. the b/w really brought out its characteristics (which looks fantastic btw) this lens also comes highly recommended...you are giving me a hard time deciding Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaybob Posted October 5, 2012 Share #18  Posted October 5, 2012 I'm not COMPLETELY anti-color, mind you.  Summicron 50 rigid ASA 1600 1/25th at f2 Sony NEX 5 LR 4 color correction and RAW conversion  **ZERO Lightroom sharpening and almost no (just a 6) color noise reduction** Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/189290-recommend-old-lens/?do=findComment&comment=2133862'>More sharing options...
brianv Posted October 6, 2012 Share #19  Posted October 6, 2012 Some more tests,  Summicron 5cm F2, First type Rigid circa 1957  At F2  grass_f2 Summicron Rigid by anachronist1, on Flickr  grass_f2a Summicron Rigid by anachronist1, on Flickr  At F4:  grass_f4 Summicron Rigid by anachronist1, on Flickr  grass_f4a Summicron Rigid by anachronist1, on Flickr Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianv Posted October 6, 2012 Share #20  Posted October 6, 2012 A 1936 Carl Zeiss Jena Sonnar, 5cm F1.5, coated.  Wide-open on the M9  1936 Coated Sonnar 5cm F1.5, converted to Leica Mount, wide-open on the M9 by anachronist1, on Flickr  100% crop, F1.5, 1936 Sonnar converted to Leica Mount by anachronist1, on Flickr Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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