Voigt Posted October 1, 2012 Author Share #181 Posted October 1, 2012 Advertisement (gone after registration) You may not be interested in what was happening in 1979, but I'd suggest you go back just a few days and read what was said on this thread previously. It may be helpful to you. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted October 1, 2012 Posted October 1, 2012 Hi Voigt, Take a look here What we gave up for the M. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
pico Posted October 1, 2012 Share #182 Posted October 1, 2012 I wonder if the average hand size has grown any in the last 100 years.[...] Yes, overall human males are about 4" taller, 30 pounds heavier than 100 years ago, but we are really concerned about Leica dimensions here and the average human has grown about an inch since 1930-something. If Leica were to be able to make its next M camera smaller and lighter, would many not welcome that change and not see it as an improvement? Not to me. In fact, I intentionally bulk-up my Leicas with hand grips, motors or an Abrahamsson Rapid Winder. Perhaps you have smaller than average hands. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voigt Posted October 1, 2012 Author Share #183 Posted October 1, 2012 Since the introduction of the M9 I have seen many people wishing for a weather-sealed body. Less weight was a much less pressing concern (if it was a concern at all). Looks like Leica was listening for once. Weight has always been a concern when cameras grow beyond traditional users' expectations, but most I think, including myself, would prefer having the weather sealing over the minute weight difference it would create. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voigt Posted October 1, 2012 Author Share #184 Posted October 1, 2012 Yes, overall human males are about 4" taller, 30 pounds heavier than 100 years ago, but we are really concerned about Leica dimensions here and the average human has grown about an inch since 1930-something. Not to me. In fact, I intentionally bulk-up my Leicas with hand grips, motors or an Abrahamsson Rapid Winder. Perhaps you have smaller than average hands. Actually, I have large hands, but a good sense of touch. Perhaps you're the customer Canon and Nikon design for. And, it seems, Leica may be also going your way. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tobey bilek Posted October 1, 2012 Share #185 Posted October 1, 2012 I think the frame selector is the best accessory that I never used. If you really miss it, buy an old Imerect finder. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lindolfi Posted October 1, 2012 Share #186 Posted October 1, 2012 Another option is to learn to see the frame without a camera in front of your eye. You can learn it by stretching out your arms with pointing fingers, close one eye and indicate how wide a frame of a certain focal length would be in the space around you and check if you are right with an M9 or earlier in front of your eye afterwards. Really very useful, since you can already start to change a lens before you actually lift your camera, if required. Your sense of angles is improving and you don't need a frame selector lever anymore. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
virgilius Posted October 20, 2012 Share #187 Posted October 20, 2012 Advertisement (gone after registration) Yes, overall human males are about 4" taller, 30 pounds heavier than 100 years ago, but we are really concerned about Leica dimensions here and the average human has grown about an inch since 1930-something. Not to me. In fact, I intentionally bulk-up my Leicas with hand grips, motors or an Abrahamsson Rapid Winder. Perhaps you have smaller than average hands. Well, the Sony's, Nikon's and others out there are getting more and more compact while the M isn't (okay it 's Full Frame but still...). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dante Posted October 21, 2012 Share #188 Posted October 21, 2012 Reducing the depth of the body while staying within the limits imposed by the M system would be a daunting task. With the given flange distance, shaving off a few mm from the body would require a tube to protrude from the body so the flange distance was preserved. Achieving the mechanical rangefinder coupling through the tube would pose some challenge, and I fear the optical and mechanical parts of the rangefinder would require some protrusions of their own. It could turn out to be a seriously ugly design. Actually, Fujifilm did it in 1967 with the G690 series of 6x9 rangefinders. They have thin bodies with a tube that then integrates almost perfectly (in diameter) with the lenses (50, 65, 100, 150 and 180). The cylindrical extension had enameled metal trim (like a camera's back) and was wrapped around its circumference with leatherette that matched the body. I am not 100% sure why this was done (smaller hands, making the lenses themselves smaller, or what). Fuji was able to put a rangefinder actuator inside that extended mount. I don't think that the tube would present a constraint; the movement of the roller arm on a Leica relative to a 50mm lens has been constant for almost a century. BUT the big hangup on a Leica would be aesthetics. Unlike a Fuji system that released all of its lenses over a 10-year period and had the luxury of easy matching, Leica lenses have varied wildly in appearance over the years. A flush lens mount takes away a little of the visual mismatch potential. Having longer fingers, I actually like the chunkier proportions of the digital Ms. Dante Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 8, 2014 Share #189 Posted February 8, 2014 You could thread into the correct composite. It is done all the time, often with an adhesion connection to a steel or brass seat into which the fastener is screwed. Of course, carbon fiber is only one composite material. There are many. I am sure you would enjoy touring our composite materials laboratories and factories. It is a big business here. A camera body such as Leica requires can be made of composites. There are downsides such as high electrical resistance, static charges, less efficient heat conduction, permeability (attraction of moisture) for some otherwise promising materials - a particular pesky problem concerning critical alignment. It is a complex issue. Carbon Infinity Limited of England (UK) - no longer in business. Today we have the Toyo-View 4x5" camera of composites. There are also some uni-body MF and LF cameras of composites made primarily in China. And about your bike - I HATE YOU! Seriously, very cool. When I last crashed my good bike (not as good as yours) they replaced the CF front end not because it was damaged, but because the factory absolutely requires it because crash damage cannot easily be identified and one day it just fails all at once. What a great thread! I don't see Leica 250 having a more compact price. Don't care about new features - other than a 0.85 RF and the latest chip they can get at that date. But a more compact body could definitely win me over. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dant Posted February 11, 2014 Share #190 Posted February 11, 2014 I like the new M, but I'm not really interested in its live-view or its ability to use R lenses or take motion pictures. That, with an M camera, seems kinda out of place to me. But OK, I'll buy one anyway because it shoots faster, promises better images and might be more weather resistant. I also like the new red or white frame lines and thumb stub that will help me grip it better. But to say that I can just go about my business and shoot the camera just the way I like and that the added features don't interfere with the traditional operation of this camera is really putting a very positive spin on a rather sad story. If you've had the opportunity to handle an old film Leica M camera, you must realize that what this camera is missing is a lesser weight and smaller size. Live-view and motion pictures require more battery power as the built-in microphone and bigger Rear Screen require greater size. If such features hadn't been added, the camera could have been made smaller and lighter and that's really what we gave up for all these additional bells and whistles. So although, I think the M is a good camera, I'm saddened by what we've given up to have it. Video can be left out. Live view is a wonderful tool to have. I like live view much more than adding a EVF at the top that would expand the size. If your a purist, film is for you. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dant Posted February 11, 2014 Share #191 Posted February 11, 2014 Yes, it is rather funny. And, don't forget all the clamoring for the last 6 years for more exposures per battery. Now, the battery capacity has been doubled, the efficiency of the electronics improved, and the shutter completely redesigns to make room for the bigger battery - only to be received by complaints about the camera being too heavy now. Well spoken post. Some of the people are always dissatisfied no matter what. As soon as the new model arrives they have their eyes on the upcoming model that may not even be in the works. There is a certain satisfaction of being content and settling in on and using one’s gear to the fullest. Much more satisfying than always looking for that elusive pot of gold at the end of the rainbow that never materializes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tobey bilek Posted February 11, 2014 Share #192 Posted February 11, 2014 All I want is a plain simple camera that works without "quirks" like lines developing on the sensor. Something functional would be appreciated like better RF focusing which is simply not as good as .72 M6 with say 75 mm lenses. Love my 75 APO, dislike the fussy focus. Maybe some kind of internal magnifier that swings in/out. I don`t want to use some external screw in one. Not a good solution for R lenses. I would buy a real video camera if I wanted video. Don`t use high ISO very often. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
osscat Posted February 14, 2014 Share #193 Posted February 14, 2014 I guess the SONY RX-1 disproves that statement. See this in another place. Osscat Flickr: Peter Dewhurst's Photostream Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
swamiji Posted February 16, 2014 Share #194 Posted February 16, 2014 If your a purist, film is for you. Nonsense, there are two distinct group of users. One who sees a value in LV/Video/EVF and the other are users who don't. Those techie types got the M240 after much complaining. The "Purist" type got the M-E, a M9 with a new paint job. Now it's the Purist's turn to complain, as the M9 was already a compromise. It's a truth of this forum, the most obnoxious get heard, so it's time for the purists to be heard. Let them, even if it's not your cup of tea. It's up to Leica to decide what to produce, not us. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkP Posted February 16, 2014 Share #195 Posted February 16, 2014 That's funny since through just a little exercise you should be able to lose the entire weight of the camera too. Three rolls of film weigh about 100 grams and can only record 108 photos. This is sounding like the "weight weenies" on some bicycling forums who measure out each bolt in grams. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
250swb Posted February 16, 2014 Share #196 Posted February 16, 2014 If your a purist, film is for you. If you are a purist you will put the image before all else and not turn camera equipment into a fetish. Use whichever camera does the job, use whichever camera comes nearest to doing the job and accept some compromise, but using a camera just to demonstrate the camera, or lens, or medium, is standing on the sideline's of photography as a spectator. Steve Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyalf Posted February 16, 2014 Share #197 Posted February 16, 2014 The M is a great and loveable camera. I gave up and miss: - A decent camera strap that stays on camera.... - The ability to create folder on SD card from camera (much missed) - Menu buttons that can be operated wearing gloves. And thats it! The strange thing is that none of these things needed to be removed by Leica. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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