Stefan Daniel: "I never said sell your R lenses"

[jaapv]

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Leica have just stated they WON'T be making a £1000 camera. Never will. That the Leica ME is their entry camera.

 

I would much prefer a longer M Lens than the bigger R equivilent.

 

Could the 'focus assist' being still developed be AF? I mean the exisiting M is a Prototype after all....

The camera I am thinking of would be far more expensive than 1000$ And I too am unsure if Leica will ever build it - but one can hope...

[bocaburger]

Quite frankly, I have a strong feeling that a lot more people than willing to admit who buy an Mnothing will use the EVF more than the OVF. That may be especially true of new users, as an EVF, regardless of its inferior optical quality, is easier for many people to use (100% coverage, no parallax at all, full-frame view with every focal length, light boost in low-light, etc.). So in that vein, I wish Leica had taken another tack altogether: Both new cameras should have been based on the same CMOS. One should have had all the bells and whistles of the Mnothing (video, live-view, GPS capability et al) with a built-in EVF instead of the rangefinder; the other, let's also call it ME, would have been basically an M9 with the new CMOS sensor and none of the other junk.

[bybrett]

This is definitely the M. It's definitely not any lens that Leica or anyone else have for that matter.

 

Could this be a 50mm Summicron racked out to 0.7m focus distance?

[Lightwrangler]

Both new cameras should have been based on the same CMOS. One should have had all the bells and whistles of the Mnothing (video, live-view, GPS capability et al) with a built-in EVF instead of the rangefinder; the other, let's also call it ME, would have been basically an M9 with the new CMOS sensor and none of the other junk.

 

But this way Leica could not have gently introduced the rangefinder concept to newbies

 

Mike

[bybrett]

Both new cameras should have been based on the same CMOS. One should have had all the bells and whistles of the Mnothing (video, live-view, GPS capability et al) with a built-in EVF instead of the rangefinder; the other, let's also call it ME, would have been basically an M9 with the new CMOS sensor and none of the other junk.

 

But why would you want a CMOS sensor in an M9 without this junk - 1000 shot battery + quieter shutter + weather sealing + better tv screen?

[sdai]

A Leica M without the rangefinder will be just another digicam packed in the body of an M.

 

That's exactly what I want. If not because of Leica lenses, I have very little - no, actually NO interest in a rangefinder at all.

 

It would be totally awesome for people - many folds more than the hardcore rangefinder enthusiasts - to explore a whole new landscape.

 

Even with the manual focusing M lenses, I'd love to shoot with them in the SLR way or digicam way.

 

The rangefinder would be more of a decoration in this user case - a bag of hurt if I may borrow the words from late Steve Jobs. :-)

[chris_tribble]

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Also you have to remember Mr Daniels comments on the cost saving that they can now pass on to new M users by using the jigs and investment in firmware / electronics in an unchanged M. They're producing a slightly stripped down version of a well established model at a great price for a full-frame body that can take pretty well all the lenses that Leica have ever made. Some may bitch about the screen on the M9 or the buffer, but I've had 3 fault-free years of use from my 2 bodies and I hope to have a few more. What Leica can now offer is an established model as the entry level body with the option of getting something that has the bells and whistles if that's the way you want to go. Me, I'm seriously considering getting rid of my DSLR kit and getting an M10 for use mainly with long lenses or where I need better low light. I'd personally have preferred it if they'd stayed at 18 MP - this is MORE than enough for my purposes, and would have had the advantage of maintaining the same file size if you're shooting M9 alongside M. However, I've got used to managing this with the 5D2 files alongside M9, so I don't see this as too big an issue. For the moment I can't see anything to complain about at all. Interesting times

[Paul J]

Could this be a 50mm Summicron racked out to 0.7m focus distance?

 

Perhaps you are onto something there!

 

Extension tubes maybe? They have just announcened a "close up lens/filter" for the S2 and would think it is a very viable option for the M now.

 

It really is exciting what the new M has opened up. The problem with prototypes is sometimes they stay prototypes.

[topoxforddoc]

There won’t be any more R lenses. I spoke to Andreas Kaufmann last weekend on saturday at the Goodwood Revival. We have met there before and chatted at length. I was carrying my DMR and 280/4 APO plus a M9/75 lux. He told me that Leica lost money on every 280/4 APO they sold. They would have to price it at double the previous price if they remanufactured. I’m not sure anyone would want to pay £8k for a new one.

 

Charlie

[IkarusJohn]

I'm with Lars - I still see a significant gap.

 

Both the M9 based cameras (ME & Monochrom) are relatively complete - people complain about their shortcomings, but there are a lot of us who are quite happy, thank you.

 

The new M was an inevitability. Once they made the decision to move to CMOS, I think it was relatively predictable they would develop their own sensor(to have a point of difference from Sony & Fuji) - I expect the IQ will be fantastic, otherwise Leica will have (surprisingly) dropped the ball on something they have been very good at to date.

 

So if you strip away what comes naturally to the CMOS sensor (live view, EVF, focus peaking and video), the camera seems a bit of an oddball to me. The obvious curiosity is why keep the CRF? If the electronic trickery is good enough, retaining the optical system makes the M look like a camera that has hedged its bets.

 

To my mind, there is a much cheaper camera sitting and waiting to be released. If the ME banked a saving ditching the USB and frame preview, how much would be saved by ditching the complex rangefinder coupling?

 

Once the EVF has reached a point where people are happy with it, and the IQ on the sensor is proven, there is a cheaper M to be made without the Messucher. Leica already makes a camera with a cropped sensor, fixed lens and electronic viewfinder (the X2).

 

An MX, with the same form factor as the M, and identical in all respects, but without the optical viewfinder, and a built in electronic view finder, would sell like hotcakes. Sure it would offend lots of people, but they still have the Monochrom, the M, the ME, the M7 and the MP, so they're happy. Think of it as an X3 with full frame, M body and interchangeable lenses - okay, everything the M has, but not optical view finder.

 

I would expect the MX to also be prepped for AF M mount lens. That's how you get to 1%.

 

Cheers

John

[SJP]

There won’t be any more R lenses. I spoke to Andreas Kaufmann last weekend on saturday at the Goodwood Revival. We have met there before and chatted at length. I was carrying my DMR and 280/4 APO plus a M9/75 lux. He told me that Leica lost money on every 280/4 APO they sold. They would have to price it at double the previous price if they remanufactured. I’m not sure anyone would want to pay £8k for a new one.

 

Charlie

The higher they set the price the more desirable the thing becomes. Surprised Leica has not figured this out by now. Not that I am in the market for a 280/4 APO.

 

But the current (very) competitive 2nd hand R-lens prices + the potential getting of a M (sometime, not rushing) assuming IQ is OK for the R-lens adapter etc. It is an interesting thought I must admit.

[dkCambridgeshire]

I'm with Lars - I still see a significant gap.

 

Both the M9 based cameras (ME & Monochrom) are relatively complete - people complain about their shortcomings, but there are a lot of us who are quite happy, thank you.

 

The new M was an inevitability. Once they made the decision to move to CMOS, I think it was relatively predictable they would develop their own sensor(to have a point of difference from Sony & Fuji) - I expect the IQ will be fantastic, otherwise Leica will have (surprisingly) dropped the ball on something they have been very good at to date.

 

So if you strip away what comes naturally to the CMOS sensor (live view, EVF, focus peaking and video), the camera seems a bit of an oddball to me. The obvious curiosity is why keep the CRF? If the electronic trickery is good enough, retaining the optical system makes the M look like a camera that has hedged its bets.

 

To my mind, there is a much cheaper camera sitting and waiting to be released. If the ME banked a saving ditching the USB and frame preview, how much would be saved by ditching the complex rangefinder coupling?

 

Once the EVF has reached a point where people are happy with it, and the IQ on the sensor is proven, there is a cheaper M to be made without the Messucher. Leica already makes a camera with a cropped sensor, fixed lens and electronic viewfinder (the X2).

 

An MX, with the same form factor as the M, and identical in all respects, but without the optical viewfinder, and a built in electronic view finder, would sell like hotcakes. Sure it would offend lots of people, but they still have the Monochrom, the M, the ME, the M7 and the MP, so they're happy. Think of it as an X3 with full frame, M body and interchangeable lenses - okay, everything the M has, but not optical view finder.

 

I would expect the MX to also be prepped for AF M mount lens. That's how you get to 1%.

 

Cheers

John

 

Inevitable ... and potentially very much cheaper than any modern Leica digital rangefinder. But could drive diehard Leicaphiles to suicide

 

dunk

[bybrett]

John

 

Leica is already on record as not interested, does not, will not, sell hot cakes. So you need to re-evaluate your Leica business strategy in order for them to even consider it.

[janki]

Originally Posted by sdai

IMO the next thing Leica should work on is a M mount camera excluding the rangefinder.

 

It took me about 10 minutes to draw a clean Leica M EVIL model, albeit without the hotshoo.

Maybe the next new Leica camera looks something like this? It should be "easy pie" for Leica to get such a camera into production, when they have already made the Leica M. Let us say that the pure EVF model reaches the next Photokina in 2014.

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[dkCambridgeshire]

It took me about 10 minutes to draw a clean Leica M EVIL model, albeit without the hotshoo.

Maybe the next new Leica camera looks something like this? It should be "easy pie" for Leica to get such a camera into production, when they have already made the Leica M. Let us say that the pure EVF model reaches the next Photokina in 2014.

 

Excellent ... you should offer your design expertise to Hasselblad

 

Best wishes

 

dunk

[leicar7]

janki,

 

The viewfinder needs to be more centered to allow one to press the camera against the face and nose for slow speed, stable shots. Your positioning cannot be stable for long or the long, heavier R lenses. It is also unusable in vertical.

[pop]

It is also unusable in vertical.

 

Put a square sensor into the camera, then.

[Garside]

Centre the V/F and put the hotshoe to replace its former position-I'll have one of those please. Lol @ the 'blad comment.

 

Oh, and make it R mount only, with a separate and expensive M adaptor utilising stop down metering.:cool:

[pico]

It took me about 10 minutes to draw a clean Leica M EVIL model, albeit without the hotshoo.

Maybe the next new Leica camera looks something like this? It should be "easy pie" for Leica to get such a camera into production, when they have already made the Leica M. Let us say that the pure EVF model reaches the next Photokina in 2014.

 

I would lower the top deck. No need for the room that the RF occupied. Put the red dot elsewhere. I really like the EVF at the far left - but I am right-eyed. What of the left-eyed people?

 

I like Garside's idea!

 

Here is a radical idea - - mirror the top controls on the bottom. Two sets.

.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[sdai]

Oh, and make it R mount only, with a separate and expensive M adaptor utilising stop down metering.:cool:

 

Ha! That's music to my ears.