wildlightphoto Posted October 2, 2012 Share #61 Â Posted October 2, 2012 Advertisement (gone after registration) .... I will make big prints again ... Â Then I'd recommend the 80-200mm f/4 over the 80-200 f/4.5 or 70-210 f/4. The New M isn't going to be available for a few months so you have time to look around for one. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted October 2, 2012 Posted October 2, 2012 Hi wildlightphoto, Take a look here R - Telephoto lenses. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
wlaidlaw Posted October 2, 2012 Share #62 Â Posted October 2, 2012 Doug, Â Many thanks for your very useful advice. Â I suspect prices of these relatively uncommon lenses will climb as the M gets nearer. The other good alternative is the Canon FD 100 - 300 f5.6 in the more expensive L version. Canon L series long zooms have always been good and this lens runs about 1/3rd or less of the price of the 80-200 f4 R lens. The other advantage is you can get a Leitax FD to M adapter at a very reasonable price. The downside is that unlike the Tamron, there is no tripod mount, nor is there one on the adaptor. Â Wilson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted October 2, 2012 Share #63 Â Posted October 2, 2012 All three of the Tamron 70-350mm lenses I had enquired about turn out to be the far less desirable CZ735 version. Therefore I suspect the decision will come down to the Canon 100 - 300mm or the Leica 80 - 200 F4. The Canon covers the range I am seeking better, as I already have excellent 90/2.8 Elmarit-M and 135 T-E lenses for direct use. I will just check if Leitax is still making the FD to M adapter, as it would be a pity to spoil the ship etc by using a cheap adapter. Â Wilson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
topoxforddoc Posted October 2, 2012 Share #64 Â Posted October 2, 2012 Wilson, The Kyocera built 80-200/4 ROM is one of the great Leica 'bargains'. Performance close to the 70-180/2.8 APO at a fraction of the cost and weight (OK it is a max f4 aperture). The image quality is just fabulous though. Much better than the previous minolta designed zooms. If you're looking for a longer tele, then try a Tamron 300/2.8 SP LDIF Adaptall lens. I have had this side by side with a Leica 280/2.8 APO (non modular) and 280/4 APO. Although the 280/4 APO is noticeably better, the Tamron was not far off the older 280/2.8 APO. It was just a tiny bit softer with a smidgeon of colour fringing; but that's all. Charlie Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted October 2, 2012 Share #65  Posted October 2, 2012 Charlie,  It was rumoured that the 80-200 Kyocera built zoom had some Zeiss input on the design. Zeiss from their movie business really became the masters of the zoom in the 1980's. I had the 30-70 Vario-Sonnar and 24-85 Vario-Sonnar N, which were both great lenses. This Leica R lens is not a bargain at around £600 to £1200. The probably equally good quality Canon 100-300 f5.6 L lens is considerably cheaper at £225 to £400.  I sent you a PM on your 250 GTO pics.  Wilson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
topoxforddoc Posted October 2, 2012 Share #66  Posted October 2, 2012 Wilson,  I got your PM. I'll sort it out later. The 80-200/4 ROM is not the cheapest R zoom. But the IQ is truly excellent. Some people have said that it is in fact an APO lens, but not badged as such. In Leica land, £600-1000 is not expensive - about the same as a tyre for your Brother's GTO, I would imagine. It really is a very good lens and almost as good as the 70-180. It's that good.  Charlie Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_tribble Posted October 3, 2012 Share #67  Posted October 3, 2012 Advertisement (gone after registration) Getting the right longer lenses at an acceptable price for the M is an interesting conundrum. I was doing a shoot with Fred Hersch last night at the Purcell Rooms in London with M9 alongside 5D2. I used 28 cron asph and 50 lux asph throughout on the M9 at 800 ISO and had no problems with shutter speeds ranging from 15th-60th. With the Canon I was working with stabilised L series 70-200 f2.8 mkII. I needed to work fully open all the time at 2400 ISO and used a monopod - shutter speed was around 1/30th for most shots!  Results came in as below. Both of are usable shots, but I'm beginning to think that working in these conditions with a long lens at f4 is going to be a challenge - and that at any aperture larger than F4 there's no point in going to the event!  Does this mean that I'll not be getting an M? No. Does it mean I'll lay out several thousand pounds on fast R glass? No also. What I feel at the moment is that I'll have to keep a DSLR and one or two long fast lenses for the time being, but will be delighted to be able to have better high ISO + alternative focusing aids for the 90/135 m lenses + the option of the 80-200 for travel. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/188252-r-telephoto-lenses/?do=findComment&comment=2131509'>More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted October 3, 2012 Share #68 Â Posted October 3, 2012 Chris, Â I know what you mean. Late yesterday afternoon, outside my kitchen window in France, there was a procession of mum partridge with a line of little partridges behind her (strange time of the year but maybe in the sunny south of France they breed twice a year). I rushed to get my M9 with the 280 Telyt on it. I balanced it on top of a kettle by the window. The images even at 1/250 were completely hopeless. Trying to focus on brown partridges with brown grass and brown rock background was next to impossible, so I focus bracketed. The camera shake softened the shots to the point of uselessness. I recently changed back on my Visoflex to the original ground glass screen. A mistake for these types of shot I think. Unfortunately I destroyed the very thin copper shim when I removed the Nikon bright screen, so I will have to get some more. Then it is hours of work setting up the screen, so that the lens to screen distance is exactly equal to the lens to sensor. Â The ideal for an M would a long lens that had its own battery and internal stabilisation system but I don't see that ever arriving. I have narrowed my choice down to the FD 100-300 Canon L series lens with a Fotodiox FD to M adapter or the Leica R 80 - 200 F4 and use my Telyt 280 for longer shots. This assumes I will be able to get a Visoflex replacing extension tube from one of the manufacturers I have contacted for the 280. You can't use a Visoflex III body with the mirror swung up, as the shutter lever then blocks the shutter release. Â Wilson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_tribble Posted October 3, 2012 Share #69 Â Posted October 3, 2012 The Canon could be a solution (and affordable) but I don't think I could live with f5.6 ... For theatre / concert work I think I'll have to look at the 300 Nikon f4 unless I can find a Canon FD 300 2.8 - but they're rare these days and the mounts are often a problem (though I suppose if I convert it to R fit via Leitax that could help... Â How complicated! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildlightphoto Posted October 3, 2012 Share #70 Â Posted October 3, 2012 ... a Canon FD 300 2.8 - but they're rare these days and the mounts are often a problem (though I suppose if I convert it to R fit via Leitax that could help... Â Â Novoflex makes an FD-to-M adapter. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted October 3, 2012 Share #71 Â Posted October 3, 2012 Â Novoflex makes an FD-to-M adapter. Â Doug, Â As do Fotodiox. There are lots of cheapos on Fleabay but given how short the axial flange is on an FD mount, it needs to be good quality not to wobble. Even so I would be wary of a really heavy Canon lens on an FD to M adapter. Â Wilson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted October 3, 2012 Share #72 Â Posted October 3, 2012 I think if I go for the Leica R 80-200 f4, given the weight of this lens, I would be very tempted to put on the semi-permanent Leitax R-M adapter. After all it is not as if I were going to use the lens on an R again and you then have a totally rigid assembly. Â Wilson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildlightphoto Posted October 3, 2012 Share #73  Posted October 3, 2012 Doug, As do Fotodiox. There are lots of cheapos on Fleabay but given how short the axial flange is on an FD mount, it needs to be good quality not to wobble. Even so I would be wary of a really heavy Canon lens on an FD to M adapter.  Wilson  Doesn't an FD 300mm f/2.8 L have its own tripod mount? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted October 3, 2012 Share #74 Â Posted October 3, 2012 Doesn't an FD 300mm f/2.8 L have its own tripod mount? Â Doug, Â I wanted a zoom, as I already have 2 x 280/4.8 Telyt V's, which I hope to be able to use on the M. If I absolutely can't get an adapter made, I will look for a broken or cheap Visoflex 2 body. These come cheaper than the 14127* V to R adapter alone. Â Wilson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Bee Posted October 3, 2012 Share #75  Posted October 3, 2012 The Canon could be a solution (and affordable) but I don't think I could live with f5.6 ... For theatre / concert work I think I'll have to look at the 300 Nikon f4 unless I can find a Canon FD 300 2.8 - but they're rare these days and the mounts are often a problem (though I suppose if I convert it to R fit via Leitax that could help... How complicated!  Chris,  Ffordes ( Ffordes Photographic ) have a 300mm F2.8 FD in stock and it's been on their inventory for some time. It is described as "exc" and priced at £850.00  Yes it does cosmetically appear to be well used however there does not appear to be any obvious damage to it. May well be worth giving them a ring.  Kind regards Simon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Bee Posted October 3, 2012 Share #76 Â Posted October 3, 2012 Doesn't an FD 300mm f/2.8 L have its own tripod mount? Â Yes Doug, indeed it does. Â Kind regards Simon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted October 3, 2012 Share #77  Posted October 3, 2012 Chris, Ffordes ( Ffordes Photographic ) have a 300mm F2.8 FD in stock and it's been on their inventory for some time. It is described as "exc" and priced at £850.00  Yes it does cosmetically appear to be well used however there does not appear to be any obvious damage to it. May well be worth giving them a ring.  Kind regards Simon  Simon,  Most of these 300/2.8's will have seen a lot of football matches  Wilson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_tribble Posted October 3, 2012 Share #78  Posted October 3, 2012 Chris, Ffordes ( Ffordes Photographic ) have a 300mm F2.8 FD in stock and it's been on their inventory for some time. It is described as "exc" and priced at £850.00  Yes it does cosmetically appear to be well used however there does not appear to be any obvious damage to it. May well be worth giving them a ring.  Kind regards Simon  Thanks Simon - I'd noticed this and will mull for the time being. It maybe that I'll simply hold on to my 5D2 + the 300 for those odd occasions... Having got the 80-200 + an Apo x2 extender I've probably completed my pre-M spend! 1st step will be to see how it feels with the EVF before completely walking away from the SLR.  An interesting discussion though - and it's making me think of all sorts of other options too. Some of the Nikon fit Tamron 300's look good too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
topoxforddoc Posted October 3, 2012 Share #79  Posted October 3, 2012 Here’s a concert shot of Courtney Pine using the 80-200/4 ROM at F4 1/60th on my DMR at ASA400. F4 is slow for concert use, but it’s small compared to my 180/2 cron.  The second shot is Jean Toussaint using the 180 cron at F2 1/60th ASA400 on my DMR. With practice you can hand hold heavy lenses like the 180 cron at slowish speeds. It’s no different to hand holding a M at 1/15th for a night shot. It’s doable with practice.  Charlie Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/188252-r-telephoto-lenses/?do=findComment&comment=2132190'>More sharing options...
chris_tribble Posted October 4, 2012 Share #80  Posted October 4, 2012 Ah ... the 180 Cron. Current Ebay price €3,990 (eBay | Leica R 1:2/180mm Apo-Summicron-R 3CAM 11271). Good value in some senses, a step too far in others! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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