wildlightphoto Posted September 20, 2012 Share #21  Posted September 20, 2012 Advertisement (gone after registration) What is your e-mail? I can send you scans of recent shots shot on color negative film. There is no significant (visible) chromatic aberration with my 560 Telyt. I don't know what you are referring to in the photo above.  Michael, if you don't see what I'm referring to in the photos I posted and linked to it's likely you don't see it in your own photos. And I can show many photos made with the 560mm f/6.8 where the problem doesn't show. Whether the problem shows up or not depends on the particular elements in the background. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveYork Posted September 20, 2012 Share #22 Â Posted September 20, 2012 For most purposes, older lenses are just fine. I'm constantly amazed at the quality of old Zeiss and Leica lenses. Indeed, one of my favorite was an Planar from '65, though the Contarex body left a lot to be desired, but that's another story. If nothing else, the slide focus of the Telyts will be an interesting user experience. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larcomb Posted September 20, 2012 Share #23 Â Posted September 20, 2012 Michael, if you don't see what I'm referring to in the photos I posted and linked to it's likely you don't see it in your own photos. And I can show many photos made with the 560mm f/6.8 where the problem doesn't show. Whether the problem shows up or not depends on the particular elements in the background. Â the telescopic telyts were designed to maximise contrast and portability, while minimising cost. keeping the aperture low makes this possible. apochramatic correction is not needed. with a single group, there is no internal light reflection between elements. over long distances, atmospheric dust tends to lower contrast and air disturbances tend to lower resolution, so super-high resolution in a long lens is a waste of effort. consider a soccer match. contrast is more important. the telescopic telyts are superb lenses with higher contrast than the multi-element module 400, 560, and 800mm designs. Â you can easily tote the 560mm telyt because it is mostly air. another benefit of the simple design is that the lens actually transmits more light than its geometric aperture would lead one to expect. the f/6.8 lenses measure close to f/6 in actual transmission capability. a 560mm f/5.6 multi-element lens is not actually faster. Â the simple design supposedly causes some curvature of field but I have never noticed it. Â every once in a while I open up my telyt and clean out the air inside. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildlightphoto Posted September 20, 2012 Share #24 Â Posted September 20, 2012 ... over long distances, atmospheric dust tends to lower contrast and air disturbances tend to lower resolution... Â All true, but... Â ... so super-high resolution in a long lens is a waste of effort. Â I don't use long lenses over long distances and an apochromatically-corrected lens is also a very high contrast lens. Having extensively used both the simple f/6.8 Telyts and the more complex APO-Telyts (have you, Michael?) its clear to me that the APO lens' contrast losses from additional air/glass surfaces is more than made up for by contrast gains from the apochromatic correction. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted September 20, 2012 Share #25  Posted September 20, 2012 Look in the upper part of this photo. I've seen this in 3 samples of the 560mm f/6.8 so I doubt mine is an unusual copy Also see Andy Piper's photos showing the same effect with his 250mm telyt http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-collectors-historica/250354-280-telyt-surprising-effect-polarising-filter.html#post2169486 But I'm convinced the defringing tools in most raw converters will easily take care of it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larcomb Posted September 20, 2012 Share #26  Posted September 20, 2012 All true, but...   I don't use long lenses over long distances and an apochromatically-corrected lens is also a very high contrast lens. Having extensively used both the simple f/6.8 Telyts and the more complex APO-Telyts (have you, Michael?) its clear to me that the APO lens' contrast losses from additional air/glass surfaces is more than made up for by contrast gains from the apochromatic correction.  apochromatic correction does not in itself enhance contrast. it has nothing to do with it. it merely brings all colors to the same focus (minimal color fringing). in fact, some apo lenses are rather low in contrast (repro lenses, for example). the telescopic telyts are the simplest possible lenses and thus have extraordinary contrast due to the lack of internal reflections. they are achromats, but I have never seen any significant color fringing. i do own a 350 and it has some color fringing.  i did use the 280mm at leica in germany. it is a superb lens, but it is only half of the focal length of the 560 telyt. i have not used the module lenses.  to me, the module lenses are wrong-headed and were a mistake. they probably killed off the R system. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildlightphoto Posted September 20, 2012 Share #27 Â Posted September 20, 2012 Advertisement (gone after registration) But I'm convinced the defringing tools in most raw converters will easily take care of it. Â You are welcome to post some examples with/without use of defringing tools. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildlightphoto Posted September 20, 2012 Share #28  Posted September 20, 2012 apochromatic correction does not in itself enhance contrast. it has nothing to do with it. it merely brings all colors to the same focus (minimal color fringing). in fact, some apo lenses are rather low in contrast (repro lenses, for example). the telescopic telyts are the simplest possible lenses and thus have extraordinary contrast due to the lack of internal reflections. they are achromats, but I have never seen any significant color fringing. i do own a 350 and it has some color fringing. i did use the 280mm at leica in germany. it is a superb lens, but it is only half of the focal length of the 560 telyt. i have not used the module lenses.  to me, the module lenses are wrong-headed and were a mistake. they probably killed off the R system.  Michael, your statement that you do not see the color artifacts in the posted examples discredits your assertions. I've used both the 560mm f/6.8 and the 280/4 for a number of year in a wide varitey of atmospheric, climatic, lighting and social conditions. I always carry the 280mm f/4 APO because it's a spectacularly good lens. If I also want to carry a 560mm lens my choice is either the lightweight 560mm f/6.8 or the 2x APO extender, which weighs even less than the 560. Comparing hundreds of photos made with the 280/4+2x APO extender with an equal number of photos made with the 560mm f/6.8, at near or far distances, the photos made with the 280/4+extender clearly and consistently show more contrast, more image detail, more color saturation, and fewer artifacts.  One thing I have to admire about you is that no matter what user name you use or forum you participate in you've been very consistent over the years about ignoring and/or discounting the experience of others. I don't think I could function at that level of ignorance.  I'm done with this conversation, and any other conversation with you. If you wish to continue it, be my guest. If you re-register with yet another user name I'll ignore that one too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larcomb Posted September 20, 2012 Share #29  Posted September 20, 2012 Michael, your statement that you do not see the color artifacts in the posted examples discredits your assertions. I've used both the 560mm f/6.8 and the 280/4 for a number of year in a wide varitey of atmospheric, climatic, lighting and social conditions. I always carry the 280mm f/4 APO because it's a spectacularly good lens. If I also want to carry a 560mm lens my choice is either the lightweight 560mm f/6.8 or the 2x APO extender, which weighs even less than the 560. Comparing hundreds of photos made with the 280/4+2x APO extender with an equal number of photos made with the 560mm f/6.8, at near or far distances, the photos made with the 280/4+extender clearly and consistently show more contrast, more image detail, more color saturation, and fewer artifacts. One thing I have to admire about you is that you've been very consistent about ignoring the experience of others. I'm done with this conversation, and any other conversation with you. If you wish to continue it, be my guest. If you re-register with yet another user name I'll ignore that one too.  it appears we are on different topics. im talking about the module lenses, not the 280 telyt f/4. the point is cost vs performance. the telescopic lenses are superb by any measure. i don't understand why you are so worked up about this. i agree the 280 f/4 is a superb lens, but its not 560mm.  I don't quite know what else you are talking about. i was not referring to the 280mm, but to the 400, 560, and 800mm module lenses. have you used those? it seems not. those are the ones im talking about, not the 280. i agree the 280 f/4 is a fantastic lens, but i was not talking about it.  why do you keep bringing it up? its 280mm, not 400 or 560mm.  im talking about these:  http://www.apotelyt.com/photo-lens/leica/leica-apo-telyt-r-module-280-800mm-460x307.png  http://www.apotelyt.com/photo-lens/leica/leica-apo-telyt-r-module-2.8-400mm-side-960x640.jpg  my argument is simply that they are very expensive compared to the telescopic lenses, and may not actually be 'better' in practical applications.  so, if you wish to discuss those module lenses, id be happy to hear of your experience with them.  i just looked a roll of photos taken with the 560 and 350 lenses (the film was scanned). i can tell them apart quite easily. the 350 photos show color fringing. the 560 shows none (what looks like fringing in some cases could simply be halation in the film). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
giordano Posted September 20, 2012 Share #30 Â Posted September 20, 2012 the f/6.8 lenses measure close to f/6 in actual transmission capability. Â f/ stops don't measure "transmission capability": that's what T-stops are for. The f/6.8 achromats probably measure close to T6.9; modern multi-element, multi-coated f/5.6 lenses of the same focal lengths are probably about T6 to T6.3. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larcomb Posted September 20, 2012 Share #31 Â Posted September 20, 2012 f/ stops don't measure "transmission capability": that's what T-stops are for. The f/6.8 achromats probably measure close to T6.9; modern multi-element, multi-coated f/5.6 lenses of the same focal lengths are probably about T6 to T6.3. Â well, the telescopic lenses seem to transmit more light at a given marked f-stop than multi-element lenses do, based on what the meter reads (it seems to be about half a stop more light than the f/stop would seem to indicate). thats what i was saying. the point being that there is little or no real speed advantage to the lenses marked f/5.6 over the 6.8 telyts. Â this is again using leica lenses. others may differ. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
topoxforddoc Posted September 20, 2012 Share #32  Posted September 20, 2012 Charlie - Five (5!) GTOs. !!!!  Stuart,  They had 19, yes nineteen, Ferrari 250 GTOs at Goodwood this weekend doing parade laps (as well as racing in the RAC TT), as well as 29 AC Cobras in the Shelby Cup. Truly mouth watering. There must have been £500 million worth of cars in the paddock.  Charlie Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larcomb Posted September 20, 2012 Share #33  Posted September 20, 2012 Michael, your statement that you do not see the color artifacts in the posted examples discredits your assertions. I've used both the 560mm f/6.8 and the 280/4 for a number of year in a wide varitey of atmospheric, climatic, lighting and social conditions. I always carry the 280mm f/4 APO because it's a spectacularly good lens. If I also want to carry a 560mm lens my choice is either the lightweight 560mm f/6.8 or the 2x APO extender, which weighs even less than the 560. Comparing hundreds of photos made with the 280/4+2x APO extender with an equal number of photos made with the 560mm f/6.8, at near or far distances, the photos made with the 280/4+extender clearly and consistently show more contrast, more image detail, more color saturation, and fewer artifacts. One thing I have to admire about you is that no matter what user name you use or forum you participate in you've been very consistent over the years about ignoring and/or discounting the experience of others. I don't think I could function at that level of ignorance.  The telescopic (f/6.8) Telyts are very well corrected for chromatic aberration. Colour fringing should not be noticeable under actual usage conditions. The main flaw of these lenses is supposed to be curvature of field, though I have never noticed it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larcomb Posted September 25, 2012 Share #34  Posted September 25, 2012 The telescopic (f/6.8) Telyts are very well corrected for chromatic aberration. Colour fringing should not be noticeable under actual usage conditions. The main flaw of these lenses is supposed to be curvature of field, though I have never noticed it.  Here is a photo taken with the 350mm Telyt-R. The image was reduced to only 1600 pixels wide to accommodate the web site. Film was Fuji Pro 400H. If you zoom in very tight you can see some yellow fringing on the man's collar. In most situations it is not noticeable.  The lens has excellent colour quality and tonality.  http://forum.mflenses.com/userpix/20129/6041_Copy_of_0022827R107234A_2.jpg  Here is one taken with the 560mm Telyt-R. It has no chromatic aberration to speak of,  http://forum.mflenses.com/userpix/20129/6041_Copy_of_0022827R103616A_1.jpg Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
telyt Posted September 25, 2012 Share #35  Posted September 25, 2012 Here is one taken with the 560mm Telyt-R. It has no chromatic aberration to speak of, http://forum.mflenses.com/userpix/20129/6041_Copy_of_0022827R103616A_1.jpg  Look closer Michael, it's there. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larcomb Posted September 25, 2012 Share #36  Posted September 25, 2012 Look closer Michael, it's there.  My name is John Larcomb and there is no observable chromatic aberration in the photo. Look at the black and white signs. Any chromatic aberration would clearly show itself there. Look at the bicyclist. Any significant chromatic aberration would be obvious in his outline. Look at the leaves above his head. All are sharp and well-defined, without colour fringes. Do you know what chromatic aberration is or what it looks like?  Look at this crop of the bicyclist and the sign:  http://forum.mflenses.com/userpix/20129/6041_Copy_2_of_0022827R103616A_1.jpg  I see no colour fringing around the letters, and if there was any significant chromatic aberration present it would show up precisely in such situations. One side of the letters would be purple and the other side would be yellow. Look also at the holes in the sign-post between the sign and the bicyclist. Notice that they are free of fringes? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
telyt Posted September 25, 2012 Share #37  Posted September 25, 2012 My name is John Larcomb  OK, if you say so.  and there is no observable chromatic aberration in the photo.  Look at the power wires. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larcomb Posted September 25, 2012 Share #38  Posted September 25, 2012 OK, if you say so.   Look at the power wires.  What you are seeing there is halation, not chromatic aberration. Here is another example:  http://static.photo.net/attachments/bboard/00C/00C8IF-23401284.jpg Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildlightphoto Posted September 25, 2012 Share #39  Posted September 25, 2012  Look at this crop of the bicyclist and the sign:  http://forum.mflenses.com/userpix/20129/6041_Copy_2_of_0022827R103616A_1.jpg   Michael, the effect with this lens is in out-of-focus areas.  What you are seeing there is halation, not chromatic aberration. Here is another example: http://static.photo.net/attachments/bboard/00C/00C8IF-23401284.jpg  Look again, Michael. The so-called halation in the utility wires in the upper right corner is magenta on one side of the wire, green on the other side. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
masjah Posted September 26, 2012 Share #40 Â Posted September 26, 2012 My name is John Larcomb....... Â John, at the risk of going off on a tangent, I'm a bit puzzled that in your Forum profle, you list your gender as "female". Please could you clarify (e.g. mis-type, humour, wish for anonymity, my being sexist in my name/gender assumptions, and so on)? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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