Rick Posted September 19, 2012 Author Share #41 Posted September 19, 2012 Advertisement (gone after registration) Boca, I always speak for myself, that is all any of us can do. And, I actually wasn't referring to your post at all. So, I won't counter your fleeting line by line analysis of my post. I was actually providing a differing opinion to the post by exile because, I believe that many M users are going to really find that having the ability to use macro and longer lenses on the M240 is going to be an advantage. He stated that, "They may as well have a Nikon dSLR in their padded camera backpacks." My view is the opposite to his; they won't have to carry an additional bulky DSLR and huge lenses around anymore with the new Leica M240. A lot of Leica M users are going to be selling their bulky DSLR cameras and huge lenses now... speaking for myself, I'll be one of them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted September 19, 2012 Posted September 19, 2012 Hi Rick, Take a look here Live View opens new avenues for M. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
AlanG Posted September 19, 2012 Share #42 Posted September 19, 2012 It goes both ways. Shortly after getting a 5DII some years ago I met Canon's local tech rep and asked him when they'd have a clip on EVF for it so I could better utilize the live view feature. Still waiting and there's no focus peaking. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lars_bergquist Posted September 19, 2012 Share #43 Posted September 19, 2012 I am sorry to throw some cold water on the flames of enthusiasm but – while live view and focus peaking will probably be OK for long R lenses and other similar optics, which will mostly be used wide open, or nearly so – the M will simply not be an alternative for serious macro work, i.e. with reproduction rates around 1:1. And for me, this looks to be a deal breaker. I have a drawer full of advanced Olympus OM macro gear – that was a strong point of that system. But this kind of work demands flash lighting. And the arrangements for using flash with the M with the EVF in place, are among the most inane, kludgey, Rube Goldbergesque and impractical that I have yet to see. The Gnomes of Solms must have had too much Glühwein when they designed this: First you add a $895 multi-function grip with irrelevant functions, then you add a flash rail (price unknown) and a separate coiled cable to connect them, and unless you want to stick your flash in the rail, making you look like an unwashed newspaper photog in a Dick Tracy strip from the 1940's – just to be able to connect the laboriously connected rail to your flashgun you need a Nikon (!) or Nissin cable so you can hold the now incredibly cumbersome camera and the flash in different hands, as you should. I would not be caught dead with a rig like that one. The idea of hunting a moving target like a grasshopper with it, is too silly even to be laughable. If I can find a suitable adapter for the lenses, it seems that buying a medium-grade DSLR would be not only cheaper, but a good deal more handy and practical. So until Leica understands where the extra flash connector should sit (on the left end of the camera body) I fail to feel much enthusiasm for the M. Also, serious macro work will force you to focus wide open and then stopping down to f:16 or thereabouts. Doing this manually and with a living or at least undead subject simply won't work. The old man from the Age of the Kine-Exakta (which had built in flash connecting points – in 1936! I wonder what year the Gnomes inhabit?) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lars_bergquist Posted September 19, 2012 Share #44 Posted September 19, 2012 Sorry, did an inadvertent double-posting. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
farnz Posted September 19, 2012 Share #45 Posted September 19, 2012 How about a ring flash? Does anyone know if the M(ilestone*) has a flash synch socket? Pete * Leica says "M as in milestone." It's an unfortunate strapline considering how the word "millstone" could be substituted by the uncharitable. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lars_bergquist Posted September 19, 2012 Share #46 Posted September 19, 2012 How about a ring flash? Does anyone know if the M(ilestone*) has a flash synch socket? Pete * Leica says "M as in milestone." It's an unfortunate strapline considering how the word "millstone" could be substituted by the uncharitable. The answer is NO. See my above post. The old man from the Age of Flash Powder (this is probably the most practical solution for the M) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanG Posted September 19, 2012 Share #47 Posted September 19, 2012 Advertisement (gone after registration) I have a drawer full of advanced Olympus OM macro gear – that was a strong point of that system. But this kind of work demands flash lighting. And the arrangements for using flash with the M with the EVF in place, are among the most inane, kludgey, Rube Goldbergesque and impractical that I have yet to see. You might want to consider simply using a magnifier over the LCD for this kind of work. I do that very often when using live view. This will leave your flash sync available. But some of your other comments might still show an advantage for SLRs. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Campbell Posted September 19, 2012 Share #48 Posted September 19, 2012 So, for the M-Monochrom that should arrive soon, should I have my DR-Summicron milled down or not? —Mitch/Paris A fabulous lens with the MM; sharp corner to corner at f4.0. Classic character. You can see examples on my blog: Woody Campbell | One photograph every day. Forever! to use it on a MM you will have to have the close focus cam milled off. DAG can do this. This means that it no longer couples with the goggles on. But of course on the M you will be able to close focus the the EVF. As far as collecting goes, there were many, many of these lenses made and they aren't that expensive. If you care buy one to collect and one to use. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanG Posted September 19, 2012 Share #49 Posted September 19, 2012 I have a drawer full of advanced Olympus OM macro gear – that was a strong point of that system. But this kind of work demands flash lighting. And the arrangements for using flash with the M with the EVF in place, are among the most inane, kludgey, Rube Goldbergesque and impractical that I have yet to see. I do think all "pro" cameras need a flash socket on addition to a hot shoe. (At least Leica has a way to do this even if it is pretty expensive.) You might want to consider simply using a magnifier over the LCD for this kind of work. I do that very often when using live view. This will leave your flash sync available. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Campbell Posted September 19, 2012 Share #50 Posted September 19, 2012 Darn, you are correct. I was temporarily blinded by enthusiasm! The EOS T/S lenses would be a major plus, particularly the 24mm which people say is fabulous. Of course they are entirely manual. So we need an EOS to M adapter! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted September 19, 2012 Share #51 Posted September 19, 2012 I agree with Lars, in the sense that he speaks of SERIOUS Macro work around 1:1 - with flash : this is a specialized field that needs specialized tools... and I don't think Leica is adressing this sector... at least, until they make some new accessory kit fit for M... which can or cannot be in their plans : but, no doubt that with M the Leica aficionados have anyway more capabilities for good amateur macro shots than relying on the good ol' Visoflexes... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanG Posted September 19, 2012 Share #52 Posted September 19, 2012 The EOS T/S lenses would be a major plus, particularly the 24mm which people say is fabulous. Of course they are entirely manual. So we need an EOS to M adapter! They are manual focus but the aperture is electronically controlled. This will add a lot of complexity to any adapter. (I explained this in another post on the previous page.) The 24TSE is exceptionally good and the 17TSE is also very good and has no competition in 35mm format. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lars_bergquist Posted September 19, 2012 Share #53 Posted September 19, 2012 About the DR Summicron: It differs only mechanically from the run-of-the-mill Rigid Summicron. Optically, they are identical. So if you want that kind of fingerprint with a digital Leica, just get yourself a good plain Rigid and be happy. No milling. No filing. No worrying. The old man from the Age of the NF/DR Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted September 19, 2012 Author Share #54 Posted September 19, 2012 When I started this thread about what lenses members were interested in trying on the new M with LV, I wasn't expecting the negativity here. It is interesting that to me that what seems fantastic is judged by others as a negative. I had no idea that suggesting that it is going to be great to try the Macro Elmar 90 on the new M would bring out points of view like this is inane and kludgy and worse. Two sides to every issue if you will. As I see it, my Macro 90 is kludgy right now on the M9. I have to put goggles on it and then the frame lines are subject to bad parallax error, you really have not much idea what you are framing and forget focus-reframe for macro. It is horrible. The alternative is the Visioflex. That is the definition of kludgy in my book. What is exciting about the M is the LV. It wil solve both the parallax issue and the focus problems and it should, provide a simple elegant solution to macro work with my 90 Macro Elmar. Sure, the flash is going to be some-what funny looking to some, but I guess I don't place that much interest on what others think my system looks like as some here. Don't really care - not an issue... as long as it gets me a nice picture. Leica added a second flash sync which many have been asking for. If, they hadn't done that then it seems that it makes sense to be critical of the system. Thanks Leica for providing a way, and thinking ahead, to give us a second flash sync when we are using the EVF. As for stopping down to f16 after focusing... not sure if that is how it will work. We will have to wait and see because, as k-hawinkler states, "signal amplification permits focus peaking of an already stopped down lens to about f/8 - that's my experience on the NEXs." So, it may work out that you can focus down to f16. Agreed that none of this is going to be as perfect as a dedicated system for Macro but, it is still going to be fantastic to use the Macro Elmar 90 with the EVF. Fantastic. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
k-hawinkler Posted September 19, 2012 Share #55 Posted September 19, 2012 A fabulous lens with the MM; sharp corner to corner at f4.0. Classic character. You can see examples on my blog: Woody Campbell | One photograph every day. Forever! to use it on a MM you will have to have the close focus cam milled off. DAG can do this. This means that it no longer couples with the goggles on. But of course on the M you will be able to close focus the the EVF. As far as collecting goes, there were many, many of these lenses made and they aren't that expensive. If you care buy one to collect and one to use. Gorgeous shots. Thanks. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlesphoto99 Posted September 19, 2012 Share #56 Posted September 19, 2012 Rick, keep in mind you will still have to put the googles on the 90 Macro Elmar. It increases the distance between the body and lens. But it will be nicer to frame with live view. I do hope Leica's service department will be ready for the Pandora's box that will be opened when everyone can now accurately judge with live view whether their lenses are out of alignment or not (and/or the body). They could be deluged in this age of pixel peeping and sharpness above all. personally I've never minded or even known if my lenses are off (unless they are WAY off that is). Really, it's just another tool in the tool box that can be easily ignored. Not sure why people are so bent out of shape about the new M having extra functionality whilst not taking away from or intruding upon the traditional form/function of the M. I'm glad they added them and implemented them with same simplicity and style that they use for the core elements of the M. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdriceman Posted September 19, 2012 Share #57 Posted September 19, 2012 How about a ring flash? Does anyone know if the M(ilestone*) has a flash synch socket? Pete * Leica says "M as in milestone." It's an unfortunate strapline considering how the word "millstone" could be substituted by the uncharitable. No flash sync socket in the body, but the multi-function accessory grip does have a flash sync socket. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul J Posted September 19, 2012 Share #58 Posted September 19, 2012 PC sync socket for macro and flash for me. Also I wouldn't be surprised if a external sca cord turns up similar to the Flash extension cords we have now letting us put the flash where we want. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest malland Posted September 19, 2012 Share #59 Posted September 19, 2012 About the DR Summicron: It differs only mechanically from the run-of-the-mill Rigid Summicron. Optically, they are identical. So if you want that kind of fingerprint with a digital Leica, just get yourself a good plain Rigid and be happy. No milling. No filing. No worrying...The trouble I'm not into buying and selling and, in any case, I'm in Paris right now (where I received my M-Monochrom today) and the DR Summicron is in Bangkok — so it will be easier just to have it filed down. My jet-lag is worse than I thought, as I took two photographs on the bus coming back from the camera store and managed to delete the good one! I don't see the purpose of having a Delete button, but I assume that I won't do this again. —Mitch/Paris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted September 19, 2012 Author Share #60 Posted September 19, 2012 About the DR Summicron: It differs only mechanically from the run-of-the-mill Rigid Summicron. Optically, they are identical. So if you want that kind of fingerprint with a digital Leica, just get yourself a good plain Rigid and be happy. No milling. No filing. No worrying. The old man from the Age of the NF/DR But, if you want to be able to focus down to about 20", then mill down the DR version of the 50mm Rigid and use the EVF or the live view LCD image for the "near range" and the RF for the "far range" and get the best of both "dual ranges" in this wonderful old lens. That is what is so fantastic about having the new EVF. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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