black and white film vs. monochrome

[tomasis7]

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the point is that dedicated B W camera creates awereness in the photog community Creating 8k bw camera is bold move.

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[Guest imro]

for me there is another interessant aspect.

 

I'm happy to see nearly 80 years old film negatives my grandfather has made with his voigtlaender camera. For me it's very pleasing to see him and the people around him and his environment in those days when he was a young man.

Still today it is no problem to make prints from these negatives.

Our "modern" pictures are only digits 0 and 1.

 

I don't believe that my pictures are great art of work but i like the idea that my grandchildren and later generation can have a look on the appearance of their forfathers and how they lived.

 

I think that it can be a problem in the further future to read the digital pictures of today when you didn't make prints of them.

[jaapv]

I doubt that. There have been so many images stored in JPG that it is impossible to conceive the absence of conversion programs when the format has become obsolete.

[Guest imro]

I doubt that. There have been so many images stored in JPG that it is impossible to conceive the absence of conversion programs when the format has become obsolete.

 

probably you will be right but the next question is what is the best storage for your important digital pictures for the next let's say 50 years and will you make new copies on new storages after ?-years?

[jaapv]

There are archival CDs that are guaranteed for 100 years.

[wattsy]

There are archival CDs that are guaranteed for 100 years.

 

Yes, but will there be a drive in 100 years to read the CD – that is, a drive that the average consumer will own or have access to? Already, many consumer Macs and PCs are sold without a CD drive and the trend is very much in the direction of downloading/streaming media rather than using discs.

[jaapv]

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Well, in that case, what is the estimated lifespan of the Cloud?

[wattsy]

I've no idea but probably as long as there is still some kind of basic civilisation.

 

I think making prints (even little 6x4s) is the simplest solution for access by future generations. Few people will bother messing around with old digital media or try to find stuff online – or indeed get film negs printed – but everyone likes to have a rummage through a shoe box of old photos.

[pop]

Guesstimated half life for

• Cloud: 7.5 +/- 2 yrs
  
• any one cloud service provider (abroad): 3 +/- 2 yrs
  
• any one cloud service provider (domestic): 5 +/-2 yrs
  

Base for guesstimate: Seat of the pants (=none), but 35yrs experience in IT und Information Management

 

BTW, avoid storage providers like hell who are within legislation or reach of foreign powers. Also avoid storage providers who will exploit your deposits in any manner whatsoever.

 

Internet vaults might be a solution if you find a trustworthy provider. However, those expect regular payment. That's no good for the storage of your images when you expect your grandchildren to retrieve your treasures in fifty year's time.

[jaapv]

So it means transferring the contents to another medium when it seems CD/DVD technology is expiring. If need be a conversion program for the format. I guess archival specialists like musea will be able to access files into the far future - though it may turn into something like being able to read Babylonian script.

[pop]

Archives have been aware of the issue for a number of years, although not a very large one, I'm afraid.

 

The consensus which seems to have been reached so far is that the long term archival of digital media is a continuous process. You have to develop schedules for each kind of medium and for each data format and then to copy and convert the whole contents of your archive. Storing documents on paper and parchment also takes some continuous work but nothing on this scale.

 

That's nothing you can ensure for decades to come as a private person or even as a small organization, I think.

[wattsy]

So it means transferring the contents to another medium when it seems CD/DVD technology is expiring.

 

Yes. The problem is when you snuff it. Who will bother continuing transferring your archive to keep pace with standards, technology and trends?

[jaapv]

Well, I certainly won't...

[brianv]

Has anyone tried this product?

 

SanDisk Memory Vault for Long-Term Storage

 

Claims 100-year retention. I suspect we will see more products life this. Flash memory with 40-year memory is fairly common in the embedded world. I suspect we will see more long-term retention memory come to the market.

 

I have a 1GByte drive in a machine at work that is 20 years old. Keep 3 physical drives in the same machine, use the 1GByte for source code backup. It will probably outlast all of the new Terabyte drives that i own. The density on new drives, and "build quality" - data just will not last very long.

[SteveYork]

I have no interest at all in emulating a film look. In that case I would prefer film. I will be using the MM for the way the files look out of that camera.

 

I have no interest in this new digital B&W. It looks terrible. In every other picture I've seen from this camera, the highlights are blown. Very clinical too. If I want to shoot B&W, I'll stick with film, which to my eye is much more appealing.

[Jeff S]

I have no interest in this new digital B&W. It looks terrible. In every other picture I've seen from this camera, the highlights are blown. Very clinical too. If I want to shoot B&W, I'll stick with film, which to my eye is much more appealing.

 

I have no dog in this fight, having used film and digital. I would just say that I would never make a judgment about a camera, let alone an entire medium, based on what I saw from others...especially if not in print. And if highlights are blown, then that's poor technique.

 

I suspect that even among M users, less than 1% go to the trouble to produce truly worthy prints. Why would one draw conclusions from others in general, let alone from the other 99%?

 

Digital is not film. But the tools are now available to produce beautiful prints, not identical prints, in either medium. In both worlds, the camera is only a starting point. The tools and workflow from there to the final print are significant and need to be optimized at every step. Digital has come a long way in this regard with better software, better printers, better inks, better papers and profiles, and so on. The camera...be it a film M or MM...can produce a fine start either way IMO.

 

But, to each his/her own. Choices are good.

 

Jeff

[jaapv]

I have no interest in this new digital B&W. It looks terrible. In every other picture I've seen from this camera, the highlights are blown. Very clinical too. If I want to shoot B&W, I'll stick with film, which to my eye is much more appealing.

 

Hmm.. I have a couple of Whitewall prints from the MM, courtesy of Leica. I think you are wrong.

If I were to judge the quality of film prints by a vast number of awful scans I see on the Internet...

[AbbeyFoto]

I have no interest in this new digital B&W. It looks terrible. In every other picture I've seen from this camera, the highlights are blown. Very clinical too. If I want to shoot B&W, I'll stick with film, which to my eye is much more appealing.

 

Highlight clipping is an issue with which a MM user has to be aware. "Clinical" is a feature of digital rather than the MM as such. I have plans to revive my film photography and I understand those who continue to work with film only, but I doubt I will give up on digital now. The convenience is too great.

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