marknorton Posted September 6, 2012 Share #21 Â Posted September 6, 2012 Advertisement (gone after registration) Photokina is less than 2 weeks away and there is much less eager anticipation than I expected. Six years ago, there was feverish expectation about the imminent launch of Leica's Digital M. Â It's been a rocky ride since then, problems with the products, the economy of course and Leica's largely indecipherable weasel words masquerading as explanations for the latest SNAFU. Â I hope for a ground breaking new Digital M camera instead of yet another M8 derivative. The undoubted success of the M9 and especially the drag-along lens business should have allowed them to dig deep and come up with something new and exciting instead of a few changes made between Kaffee und Kuchen and lunch. Â I may be surprised and delighted; more likely I will be disappointed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted September 6, 2012 Posted September 6, 2012 Hi marknorton, Take a look here M10, the new M8. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Gerard Posted September 6, 2012 Share #22 Â Posted September 6, 2012 As I see it, the three year digital product lifespan is mostly a business driven 'reality'. Fact is, groundbreaking technology and giant leap designs are usually seen once in a decade. I currently struggle to see how the soon to be released M will be such an iconic product. Â I fear the launch may well mimic Apple's marketing strategy... But it would be exciting to be proved wrong. Â I guess my difficulty in feeling the new M will suffer M8 style launch glitches is that most tech I believe it will feature will have been thoroughly tested by other brands, that it will not interest me, and that it is highly unlikely it will improve my skills or pleasure over and above the M9. Â Not long to wait now... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted September 6, 2012 Share #23 Â Posted September 6, 2012 If the M10 could be a new M8.2 as far as frame lines & IQ and if it could have more speed and less noise it would be enough for me. I don't hold my breath though as i fear its frame lines will be as inaccurate at medium to long distance as those of the M9. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted September 6, 2012 Share #24 Â Posted September 6, 2012 Why are we knocking a camera that has not even been shown to the public ? Â We are not. The usual members are vapor-bashing again. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thighslapper Posted September 7, 2012 Share #25  Posted September 7, 2012 You HAVE to renew or improve a product line in todays ultra competitive market to maintain your customer pool and attract others.  Leica will never win the technical innovation battle against the giants such as Sony, Canon,Nikon and Fuji.  Their current market positioning is increasingly one of a brand that is more and more concerned with luxury, quality and exclusivity.  They will be relying on this, rather than radical technical improvements to sell the M10. Their fantastic line up of manual lenses is both a blessing .... and a curse .... as it is always going to limit the M ranges attraction to the general photographic public.  I bought an M9 to escape from the bulk, weight and complexity of DSLR gear as there was finally a compact digital of comparable high quality that I could change to.... and enough cash to do it without too much trouble...  The M10 will leave me in exactly the same situation as the D700/D800 and similar previous semi-pro cameras I have owned ..... is the improvement worth the expense ?  For those with enough cash it isn't a choice at all.... you change just like some people get new cars every 3 years to keep up with the times and impress the neighbours.... I am sure these are the folk that Leica wants .... despite anything Mr Daniel says to the contrary  There are very few things I would like to see improved on the M9 ..... and if selling an old M9 and buying an M10 leaves me more than 3-4k GBP out of pocket, then for once I might forget the scramble to get a new toy to play with.....  Much more attractive is a Monochrom as a complementary camera to widen my photographic scope..... far more useful than a few extra pixels and some bolt-on electonic gizmos.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rramesh Posted September 7, 2012 Author Share #26 Â Posted September 7, 2012 +1. I wouldn't replace my M9 for another camera (Leica or other) unless the incremental value it brings is truly significant. Â So far I have not seen any feature in the M10 rumor mill that makes it a compelling jump. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted September 7, 2012 Share #27 Â Posted September 7, 2012 Advertisement (gone after registration) Recap of what we have learned so far on this thread: Â The M8 was an interim product, wait for the M9. But, the M9 offers nothing compelling enough over the M8 to justify the expense. Wait for the M10. The M10 is going to be an interim product might as well wait for the M11... Â "Leica will never win the technical innovation battle against the giants such as Sony, Canon,Nikon and Fuji." Even though the M9 system was better in many ways than any other FF 35 mm camera of its time(i.e. resolution), Â "Their current market positioning is increasingly one of a brand that is more and more concerned with luxury, quality and exclusivity, " except, their optics, basic design, and final quality of image is head and shoulders above their contemporary competition. Â "They will be relying on this, rather than radical technical improvements to sell the M10." Fallacious premises lead to poor prognostication. Â The M10 may well surprise everyone. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bocaburger Posted September 7, 2012 Share #28 Â Posted September 7, 2012 The M10 could be stunningly revolutionary and make the M9 look like a Brownie Hawkeye by comparison and I could be drooling over it like a hungry hound, but I won't buy one until I see if Leica will support the M9 better than they have the M8. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rramesh Posted September 7, 2012 Author Share #29 Â Posted September 7, 2012 But, the M9 offers nothing compelling enough over the M8 to justify the expense. "Full-frame". This is what made the M9 exceptionally compelling. With the M9, you can reap the full value of all M lenses (Leica, CV, Zeiss), on a digital camera. No other digital camera in the market offers this. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted September 7, 2012 Share #30 Â Posted September 7, 2012 "Full-frame". This is what made the M9 exceptionally compelling. With the M9, you can reap the full value of all M lenses (Leica, CV, Zeiss), on a digital camera. No other digital camera in the market offers this. Â Add a smiley-face to the end of that paragraph and read it again. Matter of fact, just add smiley-faces to the end of every paragraph. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted September 7, 2012 Share #31 Â Posted September 7, 2012 The M10 could be stunningly revolutionary and make the M9 look like a Brownie Hawkeye by comparison and I could be drooling over it like a hungry hound, but I won't buy one until I see if Leica will support the M9 better than they have the M8. Â Really? Are you going to drag that stinky fish into every new thread from now on? I'm sure you realize that will derail every thread. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bocaburger Posted September 7, 2012 Share #32 Â Posted September 7, 2012 Really? Are you going to drag that stinky fish into every new thread from now on? I'm sure you realize that will derail every thread. Â This thread wasn't exactly bound for glory, and there was already a bit of wharfside aroma to it. But more importantly, for a lot of people, repairability for more than 3 years after discontinuation is just as important a factor in buying a product than its technological features, and thus germaine to any discussion about the pros and cons. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thighslapper Posted September 7, 2012 Share #33  Posted September 7, 2012 Fallacious premises lead to poor prognostication.  The M10 may well surprise everyone.  I hope I am surprised  ..... the only technical innovation with the M9 was shoe-horning a full size digital sensor into a small mechanical manual lens rangefinder body ...... and some microlenses to cope with the wide angle problem.  M10 will be the same - taking other peoples technology and adding a Leica twist and jazzing it up into a wallet-opening package  MORE stinky fish please ! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted September 7, 2012 Share #34 Â Posted September 7, 2012 Let's go fishing with some sparse thoughts... that's the right thread... : - M8 was the real big news : a digital M can be done and can work fine (remember the old thread of comparision M8 vs. MF ?) - M9 proved that a FF into a M can fit well; basically, it has the "same" sensor of M8, with the expected pluses of FF and incremental better high ISO. - "M10" will have a different sensor, with strong consensus on CMOS - But anyone knows that sensors aren't from Leica : so they cannot simply make it as "M9 again, we changed the sensor's provider" - So it MUST have something that shows Leica capacity to innovate ITS OWN product. Â ... and we will see soon... surprisingly pleasant to have NOT seen, here, a sprouting of speculations : I appreciate that the issue of "M8 LCD unrepairability" has caused much more heat and posts : a sign that customers are more interested in the REAL VALUE of the products they buy than into the consumer frenzy of "what's the next one ?" Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted September 7, 2012 Share #35 Â Posted September 7, 2012 Yawn... Â Â Â Â edit: Luigi, you are still one of the coolest on the forum... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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