Barnack's Exposure testing Camera

[gmpphotography]

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Why is it generally assumed that the Ur-Leica was Barnack’s exposure testing device? I always thought that it didn't make any sense for Barnack to build an exposure testing device that doubled the film format of the motion picture cameras from 18 x 24 mm to 24 x 36 mm. It also made no sense to build such a camera with variable exposure times when the motion picture camera was restricted to 1/40 sec. Already years ago I began to research this discrepancy. I always thought that there must have been a different exposure testing camera that preceded the Ur-Leica. There is definitely some literature that eludes to that fact. Even Barnack in his interview, the one reproduced in this article, mentions his test exposures which then gave him the impetus to build the Ur-Leica. The most direct reference to the test exposure camera having been a different device can be found in Theo Kisselbach's book from 1952, titled "Kleines Leica Buch" (Little Leica Book), where he writes: "When he worked with the motion picture camera, he built himself a small camera for test exposures, and that brought up his thought of small negatives again. They just needed to be bigger. He doubled it...to 24mm wide and 36mm long, and thus the format for the Leica had been created."

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[bill]

Welcome.

 

Actually, I thought he created the Ur Leica so that he could go mountaineering without carrying a load of heavy kit?

 

Regards,

 

Bill

[M9reno]

Malcolm Taylor told me recently that the whole story that Barnack intended the Leica as an exposure-test camera is an invention. I then recalled a short article where Barnack himself explained the origin (in a Leica magazine of the early 1930s, later reprinted in Leica Fotografie - the citations escape me, but doubtless others here know what I'm talking about). He mentions the hiking, the asthma, and the weight as factors, but not a word about cine exposure.

[wlaidlaw]

Would not the exposure test device require some shutter speed control to allow for undercranking and overcranking a movie camera of the time? I don't know a lot about old movie camera mechanisms but if say you overcranked at 2X speed to get slow motion, would not the Maltese Cross also run at double the speed giving a 1/80 sec exposure and the opposite for speeded up motion from undercranking, giving say a speed of 1/20 sec. I know on sophisticated later cameras, especially high speed ones, you could control the shutter speed independent of the frame rate but I would doubt if this was around pre WW1.

 

Wilson

[bill]

I believe there was a separate exposure testing thingy, that took one frame at a time. Can't find my accessories book at the moment - but that was definitely not the Ur Leica.

 

Regards,

 

Bill

[wlaidlaw]

I understand the story about OB wanting a lighter "hiking" camera due to his asthma comes from a letter written by Conrad Barnack in English to Jim Forsyth, the well known Leica collector and founder of the Leica League, in the late 50's/early 60's. There was some sort of scandal about the Leica League - anyone know what it was?

 

Wilson

[wlaidlaw]

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Just out of interest, here is a picture of a pre-Leica 35mm camera. It is the military version of the Jules Richard Verascope stereo camera dating from around 1914 and takes dual 18mm x 24mm shots on cut lengths of 35mm cine film. These are stored in an automatic magazine at the back of the camera, which holds 10 strips in aluminium holders. When you pull the magazine to the left, it moves the taken strip to the back of the magazine and the next strip then pops to the front. There is an automatic dark slide of a thin flexible steel strip which keeps the magazine light tight as you go through the reloading procedure. Very ingenious. Interestingly in common with LTM Leicas, it has high and low shutter speed controls. This is the more expensive version with scale focusing and triple apertures of f4.5, f8 and f16. It has Jules Richard Anastigmat lenses. Post war these were still made, often covered in leatherette and sometimes with dual Tessar lenses. The civilian versions have a 1/4" thread tripod mount, whereas the military version like this, has a hole though which can be bolted into an aerial mount.

 

These cameras were used to take aerial reconnaissance shots in the early days of WW1, before larger more sophisticated, dedicated aerial cameras came into being in late 1914.

 

Wilson

Edited August 15, 2012 by wlaidlaw
Error

[gmpphotography]

Thanks for the responses. To clarify: Barnack had been quite interested in photography for quite a while before he even came to work for Leitz. He suffered from asthma and his health in general was not the best. That led him to consider how to make photography with a heavy 5 x 7 plate camera somewhat easier. For that reason he modified such a camera to take 15 to 20 small pictures on one 5 x 7 plate. The results proved to be unsatisfactory because of the relatively large grain of the glass plates of the time, and he gave up the idea. It was the exposure test camera and its rather impressive results that brought back his idea of small negatives, which ultimately lead to the design of the Ur-Leica.

[gmpphotography]

Malcolm Taylor told me recently that the whole story that Barnack intended the Leica as an exposure-test camera is an invention. I then recalled a short article where Barnack himself explained the origin (in a Leica magazine of the early 1930s, later reprinted in Leica Fotografie - the citations escape me, but doubtless others here know what I'm talking about). He mentions the hiking, the asthma, and the weight as factors, but not a word about cine exposure.

 

Malcolm Taylor is correct. The Ur-Leica was never intended as an exposure testing device. It was a different, small camera that Barnack built for that purpose. The relatively good results from that camera lead Barnack to design the Ur-Leica.

[gmpphotography]

Would not the exposure test device require some shutter speed control to allow for undercranking and overcranking a movie camera of the time?

Wilson

 

No, that was not necessary. Once the exposure was determined for 1/40 sec, running the camera at twice the speed simply necessitated to open the lens by one stop.

[gmpphotography]

I wrote about this extensively on my own LEICA Barnack Berek Blog. The article s titled “Oskar Barnack And The Early History Of Photography.”

[wlaidlaw]

I wrote about this extensively on my own LEICA Barnack Berek Blog. The article s titled “Oskar Barnack And The Early History Of Photography.”

 

Thank you - found the article - very interesting read. Does the exposure testing device still exist? I don't recall seeing it at Solms but I am sure they have things that are not on display. They may consider it too valuable.

 

Wilson

[gmpphotography]

Thank you - found the article - very interesting read. Does the exposure testing device still exist? I don't recall seeing it at Solms but I am sure they have things that are not on display. They may consider it too valuable.

 

Wilson

 

Unfortunately not. All traces of that camera have been lost. That is also the reason why there is so much confusion, about the Ur-Leica being referred to as Barnack's exposure testing device. That mistake was also made in the recent book, published by Knut Kühn-Leitz, titled "Max Berek, Schöpfer der ersten Leica Objektive, Pionier der Mikroskopie."

I just received authorization to use sections of that book for my LEICA Barnack Berek Blog, and I am planning to publish the most interesting parts soon.

Edited August 15, 2012 by gmpphotography
Rechtschreibfehler

[luigi bertolotti]

In my opinion, it is not strange the confusion about Ur-Leica as a exposure testing device : it is generally admitted and reported that Barnack, in the times in which applied his skill to cine cameras, thought (and probably,as said above, built) to some simple device to expose strips of 35 mm film to test exposure (also consdiering that at those times one couldn't be sure about the real sensitivity of a certain film) : I find probable that, thinking well on such a device (based on a quick system to expose and advance film on rolls) his ideas evolved to derive the development of a proper photo camera from that principle.

[gmpphotography]

I just noticed that on the official Leica website, in an article about Oskar Barnack, they write:

"From a device to test exposures for cinema film, he developed the Ur-Leica, arguably the first truly successful small-format camera in the world."

I guess that takes care of that.

[Ambro51]

Oskar Barnacks Exposure Testing Camera, It is “Die Mutter der UR Leica”, and indeed a real device and though unrecognized as such, is the subject of Georg Manns’ Article in VIDOM Nr. 50. After getting a link to this, I printed it out and translated from the German. He writes how this “photo housing” was found while doing inventory work at Solms. I came from a tin cabinet maintained and donated by Mr. Albert, and contained a quantity of Barnacks Notes, pamphlets and samples. Mann said that not much attention had ever been paid to this device. He provided several convincing reasons he felt it predates the UR. Thankfully, full measurements and many photographs accompany the article. ••••. As a Camera Builder, all this added up to me as “Plans”, and after ordering a supply of brass and aluminum...built a working replica! Doing so, more and more I became convinced this is not merely an early camera body experiment, but the Exposure Tester itself!! First, we are looking at it “wrong”. The ET was meant to orient vertically, and with its flat base, meant to screw directly on to the side of a Cine Camera. Hence, no viewfinder, and since all Cine cameras cranked on the right, this is set to mount on the left. There is no frame counter as this was not needed. The shutter, or rather “slide”, may seem cumbersome and impossible to operate. Yes maybe while sitting flat, but vertically mounted it is effective and seems accurate to the 1/40th required. A quick flick upward with the finger, and gravity drops it right back down! Very similar to the “drop” shutters used during the early days of dry plate. Internally, the camera is extremely simple. There are two Leicalike spindles, a wood inner body and a twin toothed spindlethe perfs register in. Film is merely advanced one turn of the knob. The camera body has a 25mm hole bored through, this indeed IS the image size, round 25mm! Clearly enough to give Barnack his half frame. The back of the camera has a trap door, which opens to the top (left) with a larger round opening in the case. A round piece of ground glass can be used to preset focus. The lens tube allows different lenses to be used, presently I have a modified Schneider 2.8 50mm which now has an internal F 9 stop. I’m thinking this combo will work with Rollei 25 Film. I’m going to try and get out tomorrow and do some work with this camera.•••••• So what we see here is Barnacks Exposure Testing Camera. It is “The First Leica “

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Edited May 22, 2018 by Ambro51

[George Furst]

It is a real pleasure to have such a talented camera maker in our Forum. I met him in the Forum when he wanted to also experience the joys of the UR Dummy converted to the operating UR Replica. Since then we have been sharing daily ideas about the early cameras that Barnack developed. I had heard about an earlier camera but could not find anything about it. He did the homework and came up with the answer. I always thought that the UR camera we are familiar with was too sophisticated (is that the right word?) to be just a film exposure camera. And let’s remember that one reason that Barnack moved from Zeiss the Leitz was his interest in Cine Cameras. Now we can understand better the early development of the LEICA Camera series.

 

Here we have a camera that is a combination of the old and the new. The outside is using the material of the future, metal. Inside we have the traditional material of cameras of the era, wood. There is a shutter, be it a simple one, but it does work. Then this early Camera uses the same frame size as the Cine Cameras of the day and therefor can utilize Cine Lenses like the first one that Barnack used on the UR that I have worked with and he discard because it did not cover his new 24X36 format. Also the falling sliding has a shutter speed that appears to be the same as the Cine Cameras. I appreciate what has been done here by him and it solves my dilemma, why Barnack would make such a relatively complex camera, as I feel the UR is, for the simple task of testing film for its speed!

Edited May 23, 2018 by George Furst

[Ambro51]

George I owe so much to you and your inspiration to revisit the earliest days of the Leica. Once I prove this camera with film ( soon) I will build you one. Hopefully Mr. Kim is progressing well on the reworking of my UR #80. Meanwhile, Getting closer to field trials I created this tripod bracket with attached VIDOM finder.

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[Ambro51]

Tried Film today, with mixed results. There is a light leak which overall fogged tge Film, but the circular negatives are there, veiled, but there. Remember, Barnack did consider this a failure! I think though with more tinkering I’ll seal the light. The images were nicely focused and the tripod mount VIDOM worked great.

[Ambro51]

Here is my translation of the text of Georg Manns article in VIDOM Nr. 50. “ The Mother Of The UR Leica” by Georg Mann. IMuch has already been said, written and commented on the UR Leica, and with a further contribution I would like to enrich this interesting topic with a new recognition. Found in inventory work in the Leica Museum in Solms, I'm now studying the “Photo housing“ attentively, to which had hitherto no attention paid to it, and found it to be the shape and roughly the mass of the Leica 1A. It has no other known features of a Leica. This pattern unit, which is completely finished without surface treatment, carries the museum number M 875 from Prof. S. Rosch and comes from the so-called "barnackschrank" in the t collection. The "Barnack cabinet" was a tin cupboard in which Mr. Albert kept Oskar Barnack's pamphlets and samples, among other things, before they were handed over to the Leitz collection (Herr Prof. S. Rosch). After a thorough inspection of this housing I am of the opinion that this can only be a pre-model of UR Leica. There was no reason for Barnack to make such a primitive device after the UR Leica! It could also not have been a sample of the microscope camera "MIFIMCA", since it was manufactured from 1937 and was made from parts of the Leica 1A that was then being manufactured. The housing number M 875 is 133 mm long and 53.5 mm high (the Leica 1A has dimensions of 133.5 mm and 56 mm.) On the front side of the outer aluminum case is a brass barrel with an inside diameter of 38mm, a length of 48.5mm and a clamp screw (lens carrier). In it, between the housing wall, there is a slide, this is 32.5mm wide and has an opening with the diameter 30mm (slide-lock). The inner "main body" is made of wood and attached with four screws on the front of the housing. It has a cylindrical passage of 25 mm (picture window). On the back of the outer housing a hinged flap is attached , which can be opened up and locked with two bolts. the longer bar would probably be added later. The flap covers a cylindrical opening in the housing of 33mm diameter. The cover cap is 4.7mm high and made of brass soldered together. on the left the elevator button is arranged. The arrow of the button points in the wrong direction and was certainly intended for film transport from left to right. Furthermore, on the cover cap, a pointer which is connected to the film transport roller sits. By means of a point-like mark you can transport the film so exactly 8 teeth further transport. The bottom cover is 4 mm high, also made of brass, and was probably pulled with a primitive deep-drawn tool. the recess for the locking screw was soldered, the tripod threaded part was screwed on. a brass bearing plate and is fixed to the wooden main body with two wood screws; in it the two-pieced-eight-toothed film transport spool is set and the thread for the closing screw is attached to the ground cap. The housing is equipped with two film spools, both have a winding diameter of 12mm. one has two gears, suitable for the film's peforations, the other has a riveted spring steel to clamp the film. the flange diameters are 23.2-23.8mm. •••

 

Image 3 The housing From below with tripod thread and screw plug. What arguments speak for the fact that this is the "Mother of the UR leica" 1. No part corresponds to a later made leica 2. Round picture window 3. Wooden main body 5. No stop for film transport 6. The spools do not have the winding diameter in common with the later manufactured spools. 7. The film transport roller has two rows of teeth (one had not had any experience with film loading before the film section of the leica was introduced, two-row film transport rollers were introduced) 8. Film transport from right to left. 9. Lens fitting 10. Closing slide use All these features have little in common with the pre-production samples ( UR Leica) by Oskar Barnack. Barnack would have a very great probability of need of a test model, for which would be to the Ur Leica, which he had already made.

So I have came to the conclusion that it is the case No. M 875 was the First Camera for Cinema Film with a film step of 8 perforations —-- The Real UR-Leica!