MP Light Leak?

[Jon Pop]

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I have an MP (serial # 3092xxx), black paint, which I love. But on a number of occasions I've noticed that on about the first 5 frames, typically the bottom edges, usually one more than the other, have some overexposure; you can see it on the negatives quite clearly as varying amounts of 'black' from the edges of the negative sometimes into the frame itself. But afterwards its usually fine, by about frame 5 or so it's gone. It's consistently doing this. I develop my own B/W, but also shot some XP2 and had a lab do it as well, just to see if there was something funny with my tank (as the first 5 frames or so are on the outside of the reel).

 

Any thoughts? It can be very slight, or (as in the attached example) quite bad.

 

Jon

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[Michael Hiles]

No attached example.

[Jon Pop]

Sorry about that...let's try this again!

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[Jon Pop]

Note also that as I said, it's always only the first 5-6 frames of the roll...never further down the roll. Any thoughts anyone has would be great.

[Michael Hiles]

Another question - is the apparent leak coming near the base of the camera or near the top? Remember that the image on the film is upside down. This relates to how you hold the camera for a vertical shot. In your first post you say "the bottom", presumably in a horizontal shot - this implies a light leak near the top of the camera.

 

As far as the first few frames only... very mysterious. Is the problem frame related (i.e. does it repeat similarly fare-by-frame), or does the black section of the negative negative seem to be continuous and unrelated to the frame?

[wattsy]

Odd that it only affects the first 5-6 frames. It seems to suggest that there is some kind of minor leak near the top of the take-up chamber that gets blocked after the film has been wound on a few times (and as the take up spool begins to fill). Have you tried looking inside in the take-up chamber whilst shining a small light into the VF windows, etc. to see if you can see any kind of light leakage?

[Jon Pop]

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Thanks for the replies...I'll check a horizontal picture when I get home, but I seem to recall that most of it is on the bottom of the picture when I hold the camera horizontal, i.e. so that would be the top of the camera. I'll go through several more negatives though (both home and lab processed) and check to see....will get back to everyone in a few hours. I will also look inside the film chamber with the VF as suggested, once I unload my latest film.

Cheers,

Jon

[Jon Pop]

So I've looked at my negatives and it's not consistent; seems more on the 'bottom' of the frame when horizontal; sometimes I can see a bit of burn on the edge that doesn't make it into the frame though. Perhaps it's more with the developing, maybe with my tank? Not sure. Just don't want to do a big 'tear down' of my lovely MP if I can't define it.

[pontus]

My guess would be a development issue. Does it occur on any lab processed rolls or just the ones you've processed at home?

[250swb]

I can't come up with a scenario where a light leak from a 35mm camera only fogs the edges of the first few frames, it doesn't seem possible. And if you are sure it's not a processing error, confirmed by having a roll of XP2 processed in a lab, then look elsewhere. For instance are you loading your own film from bulk stock? Are you winding the film all the way back into the cassette or leaving some sticking out? How long do you leave it before processing the film and is it stored in daylight? Is the film cassette exposed to high temperatures? So think of anything outside the camera where the film emulsion could be getting fogged by light or the nature of the emulsion is being altered.

 

Steve

[pontus]

I sometimes get dark lines on the edges of my film, but only on the edges, never in the pictures. I use Kindermann steel spirals and I guess this happens to parts of the film in contact with the spiral for some reason? Anyway, if the film was a bit crooked I assume it could affect some pictures.

[honcho]

I would be surprised if the camera is leaking light unless the back or base have been distorted in some way. Make sure films are being loaded parallel to the guide rails in the camera and subsequently onto your spirals. The image above has been cropped and rotated to level the horizon, it's difficult to tell but my first suspicions would be with either loading or processing.

 

If you are bulk loading reusable cassettes, there is possibly some scope for problems there. To eliminate that theory, get a couple of rolls of C41 processed at a lab for comparison.

[wattsy]

The processing does seem like the most likely culprit but I thought the OP had ruled this out?

"It's consistently doing this. I develop my own B/W, but also shot some XP2 and had a lab do it as well"

[honcho]

Well that's skim reading for you. Just trying to help him.

 

Never mind.

[Broadside]

Last week I processed my first film in a number of years and have had a similar but less severe result. I've been thinking about what happened and I think my steel tank may be letting some light in through the filler hole. In my tank, a Soligor, there is a plate which diverts the developer to the outside edge of the spiral and acts as a light trap. Any light leaking in through here would cause the effect we both have. Next time I will process under dim safelight conditions and see if that makes a difference.

[Jon Pop]

Thanks everyone for your discussion. The image itself was only slightly rotated if I recall but it's basically a straight up scan from a negative; the fogging/overexposure piece on the side is there regardless (the cropping is moot...). In answer to some of the other questions:

 

- I have had film processed at a lab (XP2) and there is some 'burn' on the edges. I will run another test roll

- I always rewind my film to the point where there's about 1/2" sticking out (I've learned to do it by feel). Saves my opening the film cartridge in the dark. But there's certainly no more film ever sticking out after rewind than there is when I buy a roll of film. I have never bulk loaded, only standard film bought from the store. Mostly Ilford, sometimes Fuji Neopan, rarely Kodak and sometimes Agfa APX 100.

- I use a Patterson plastic tank; I will do some 'experiments', but I've always put the recommended amount of fluid in it (290mL). I want to see if there's any leaks along the seams of the developing tank; I noticed a leak.

- I'll also load and shoot another roll of XP2 which is done with C41 in a regular lab. I'm also going to review all of my negatives and look for the patterns.

- I've loaded Leica M quite a bit and don't think it's an alignment problem within the first bit of the roll, but I'll check some more.

- My film is all stored in the fridge, never kept in high temps, and I develop it right away (within a day or two, and it's always kept cool prior to processing; I don't always keep it in the fridge after shooting, but I keep it in a cool dark place).

- I'll make some notes for all of the different variables with the next few rolls I do, and pay attention to the yes/no for each item....and see what happens!

Jon

[250swb]

I always rewind my film to the point where there's about 1/2" sticking out (I've learned to do it by feel). Saves my opening the film cartridge in the dark. But there's certainly no more film ever sticking out after rewind than there is when I buy a roll of film. I have never bulk loaded, only standard film bought from the store. Mostly Ilford, sometimes Fuji Neopan, rarely Kodak and sometimes Agfa APX 100.

 

If there is only half an inch of film sticking out it will be just the leader, so you are relying on the light trap to conform around it. The light trap in the cassette is good at sealing the full width of the film, or no film, not half of the film width. The seal relies on the two sides of felt remaining parrallel to each other, so having only half the film in the light trap can leave a gap, more noticable if it is going to leak with thicker base film's, like Ilford. This may not be the problem, but I think you should leave the full width sticking out, or none, and preferably none as it removes the temptation to pull the film back through the seals yet another time to load it on a spiral. A can opener is the best way to get film out of a cassette.

 

Steve

[rpopescu]

... and preferably none as it removes the temptation to pull the film back through the seals yet another time to load it on a spiral.

 

Steve, would you mind explaining what's wrong with pulling the film out again from the canister to load onto the spiral? Thanks.

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[250swb]

It's another opportunity for any dust that has gotten onto the light seals to scratch the emulsion. Going through the light seals twice is inevitable, but by the time the film gets processed it is often the case that it has been in a camera bag, etc. Even if it has been put directly back into the black plastic container you are adding to the possibility of scratches unnecessarily. Some films have a pretty tough emulsion, some others, like ADOX, have a very delicate emulsion, so it's best to treat them all with the same care. You will always have people who say 'it has never happened to me', but that is because it hasn't happened yet.

 

Steve

[honcho]

.... (the cropping is moot...).....

 

Not if the image extends into the rebate, which would indicate that your film loading in camera technique needs looking at, but from what you say this seems unlikely and would not show up as the extensive fogging you are getting.

 

Try winding the exposed film all the way back into the cassette (it's easy enough to open them to take the film out by feel) and using a little more chemistry in the dev tank to ensure the film is submerged. If your Paterson tank is an older white lid version, they leak more than the newer black lid tanks on inversion.