lct Posted August 8, 2012 Share #121 Posted August 8, 2012 Advertisement (gone after registration) Nobody's forced to buy accessory EVFs if they don't like that, so what's the problem exactly? We did not complain about film Ms because a Visoflex could be used with them did we. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted August 8, 2012 Posted August 8, 2012 Hi lct, Take a look here M10 with Live View - I'm wrong to yawn about this ?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
andybarton Posted August 8, 2012 Share #122 Posted August 8, 2012 Onluy 6 weeks until Photokina... Prepare to turn "Atmosphere" dial to "Febrile"... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted August 8, 2012 Share #123 Posted August 8, 2012 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rosuna Posted August 8, 2012 Share #124 Posted August 8, 2012 The weather is too calm... This is not fair... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pgk Posted August 8, 2012 Share #125 Posted August 8, 2012 The M system will offer an optical viewfinder, rangefinder and manual focus lenses for many years, but a new line of cameras with M mount and EVFs are possible and a very tempting for Leica. Absolutely! FF with M mount adapter. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdai Posted August 8, 2012 Share #126 Posted August 8, 2012 Nobody's forced to buy accessory EVFs if they don't like that, so what's the problem exactly? We did not complain about film Ms because a Visoflex could be used with them did we. Hehe ... the keywords here are: accessory or, external, optional - fantasies, rumors, arguments and heats discussions are accessories to the forum too. ;-) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted August 8, 2012 Share #127 Posted August 8, 2012 Advertisement (gone after registration) Ms will have built-in EVFs when pigs can fly hopefully. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bocaburger Posted August 8, 2012 Share #128 Posted August 8, 2012 Only niche markets will need or ask for optical viewfinders (a few products from Canon, Nikon, Pentax or Leica). I'd say that depends on how you choose to define "niche". DSLRs are a quite a good-sized market. I didn't see any of those thousands of professional photographers at the olympics using EVFs. Whatever tourists in the stands who didn't have DSLRs appeared to be holding their compact cameras at arms length. The mass market is for EVFs at 90% at this moment. This is not the future, it is the present. Seriously? Where are you getting that 90% from? I'd like to see the source of that data. It would appear that only a handful of current cameras have EVFs, so that would mean they are accounting for 90% of sales. Again, would like to see some authentic data on that. And let's not forget, Leica M is not and has never been a mass-market camera, nor is it likely to ever be, at those prices. So I keep wondering why there's this sense of urgency to cram the M10 with mass-market accoutrements. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted August 8, 2012 Share #129 Posted August 8, 2012 Nobody's forced to buy accessory EVFs if they don't like that, so what's the problem exactly? We did not complain about film Ms because a Visoflex could be used with them did we. Only because we did not have Internet forums to complain on... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted August 8, 2012 Share #130 Posted August 8, 2012 I've never read complaints like this in any photo mag since i've learned reading a century ago. Criticisms about the Visoflex itself yes, but about M bodies for being able to use it, never. Swiss-army knife syndrom i guess. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pgk Posted August 8, 2012 Share #131 Posted August 8, 2012 Nobody's forced to buy accessory EVFs if they don't like that, so what's the problem exactly? I suppose that to me its a bit like suggesting that the Canon 5D Mk4 should have and accessory EVF because it would be technically possible to fit one. But what's the point? It doesn't need one. And the same is true for M cameras - they don't need EVFs because they have a rangefinder and direct vision viewfinder. And the reverse is true too; An EVF camera doesn't need a rangefinder. So why bloat a perfectly good and usable concept by adding irrelevancies. Build a new camera with an EVF only - perfectly sensible. Its not the EVF concept, its the apparently desired evolution which is the problem to me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted August 8, 2012 Share #132 Posted August 8, 2012 Because M cameras need another viewfinders than their built-in one to do macro and telephoto since the very beginning. Simple question is to know if we prefer a Visoflex, an EVF or nothing. Those who prefer nothing will certainly understand that others may prefer a Visoflex or an EVF. And those who prefer a Visoflex will certainly understand that others may prefer an EVF. So, again and again, what's the fuss about all that? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pgk Posted August 8, 2012 Share #133 Posted August 8, 2012 So, again and again, what's the fuss about all that? The Visoflex is a stand alone accessory and doesn't induce camera 'bloat'. Its that simple. EVFs and live view will inevitably induce 'bloat' more connections, controls, hot shoes...... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanG Posted August 8, 2012 Share #134 Posted August 8, 2012 I'd say that depends on how you choose to define "niche". DSLRs are a quite a good-sized market. I didn't see any of those thousands of professional photographers at the olympics using EVFs. Whatever tourists in the stands who didn't have DSLRs appeared to be holding their compact cameras at arms length. DSLRs already have a method to directly see through the lens thus adding an EVF does not increase the functionality of the camera very much... as it would on the M. However Sony now sells DSLR "like" cameras that only use EVFs so anyone using these cameras is always in live view EVF mode or using the LCD on the back. These Sony cameras use a translucent mirror and can provide continuous AF while shooting at high speeds. In some ways they may out-perform the typical Canons and Nikons that sport shooters generally use. And various EVFs and accessory monitors are regularly used on DSLRs in the live view mode. Also live view was used on remotely controlled robotic cameras at the Olympics thus making the optical viewfinders totally irrelevant in these cameras. Robo-Cams at the Olympic Games Make Human Photogs Sweat | Raw File | Wired.com Robo-cams take an Olympic dive | Photographers Blog Robo-cams cover all the Olympic angles | Photographers Blog A separate consideration from the discussion here is that I believe that adding live view and a built in or clip on EVF is hugely attractive to Leica because it satisfies their desire to provide an R solution... but far more importantly, it provides a platform to sell a much greater range of lenses and accessories. (Where the main profit lies.) The biggest complaints I see here is some are concerned that adding live view to the M will increase the price, add a port or button or more, and may increase complexity. This is valid but is just something users will have to accept if they buy the camera. Plenty of other companies have incorporated features like these without causing user revolts. And you can always elect to stick with your current model if you don't like the new one. I can't see Leica going any other way if they have the resources to add live view/EVF. They already said that is their objective and from their perspective the pros will far outweigh the cons. Heck, giving back a pc flash socket would add a port and complexity too but I don't think many would object to it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted August 8, 2012 Share #135 Posted August 8, 2012 The Visoflex is a stand alone accessory and doesn't induce camera 'bloat'. Its that simple. EVFs and live view will inevitably induce 'bloat' more connections, controls, hot shoes...... We wouldn't be bothered with that bloat if we don't buy the EVF would we. We might even switch off the LCD if we want to shoot like HCB. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill Posted August 8, 2012 Share #136 Posted August 8, 2012 Also live view was used on remotely controlled robotic cameras at the Olympics thus making the optical viewfinders totally irrelevant in these cameras. What fun! How enjoyable! How challenging! How satisfying to the soul to be able to send a robot to do the job! I'm happy that there are cameras that can do this. It means that Leica doesn't have to... Regards, Bill Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdai Posted August 8, 2012 Share #137 Posted August 8, 2012 We might even switch off the LCD if we want to shoot like HCB. Ha! This one is totally awesome and an instant classic! I almost want to use it as my tag line :-) ... perhaps you should consider to patent it now? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill Posted August 8, 2012 Share #138 Posted August 8, 2012 We wouldn't be bothered with that bloat if we don't buy the EVF would we. Ah but we would. You see, bloat is not restricted to what you can see. There is by definition increased complexity in hardware and firmware. But, you know what? I really can't get worked up about it. What will be, will be. Leica are not about to look at post #4879 in this thread, slap themselves on the foreheads and shout "Gott in Himmel! Back to der drawing boards!!" All I ask for, yet again, in vain, (and this is not directed at you, LCT) is a recognition that what one person wants is not by definition what everybody wants. It may not even be what one person needs - it is certainly not what everybody needs. Regards, Bill Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted August 8, 2012 Share #139 Posted August 8, 2012 But it is what everybody will have next month i'm afraid... Touch wood... or not. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pop Posted August 8, 2012 Share #140 Posted August 8, 2012 But it is what everybody will have next month i'm afraid... Touch wood... or not. Mine will not grow an EVF all of a sudden. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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