On Watching A Teenager Fall In Love With An M9

[johnbuckley]

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Last night, a friend of my teenage son came over with his cousin from out of town. The cousin had spent time at the Leica store in DC, having viewed it, when planning his trip, as one more monument in Washngton that he had to visit. At the Leica store, even when offered the chance to hold the S2, he hadn't really cared to do so -- it was the chance to hold an M9 that this 14-year old aspiring photographer wanted to touch. And at our house, given the chance to play with an M9 without the awkwardness of doing so in a store with people watching, he took full advantage, learning how the rangefinder focusing worked, etc.

 

Later this year, after -- I pray -- I am possibly able to get my hands on an M10, and yes, an MM, I had thought that rather than selling both my M9 and my backup M8, I would "loan" the latter, along with my 35mm Summicron pre-Asph, to my son. He's taking photography at school in his coming 9th grade year. There he will be using one of the school's 35mm film cameras, shooting in black and white, and learning about the darkroom. But my son is an eager enough photographer that I don't think it is spoiling him to loan him a six-year old M8 so that he has a digital path to working on his own photography.

 

But he's a lucky kid -- he has a father that can do that for him. Talking to the visiting friend who so badly wants an M9 but knows it will be years and years before he can get one, it got me to thinking. Yes, he is going to save up to buy a used M2, he says, and a used 50mm Summicron. And yes, he will want to shoot film. But he wants to shoot digital, for all the obvious reasons. And I found myself telling him about the Fuji X-Pro, not a rangefinder, but enough in the Leica tradition, and inexpensive enough that he could aspire to it. And he was intrigued.

 

There is a huge debate on this forum about what, besides the M10, Leica is and should be working on. I will add to this debate only this thought: I hope it is a camera that a young person, who is sophisticated enough to seek out a Leica M9 while on a visit to a city with a Leica store, could aspire to buy, as a step toward his dream of having a digital rangefinder worthy of the tradition he wants to participate in. The old Digilux 2 was such a camera. The X2 is not; I am talking about a camera that can provide manual functionality and some kind of viewfinder that offers the possibility to shoot in a "traditional" manner. I really hope there is something in the D2 tradition that is in Leica's forthcoming product roadmap.

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[mmradman]

With proliferation of imaging devices it is nice to hear that young who aspire to use the M camera and there is benevolent individual prepared to help.

 

Considering durability of M film or unique image quality of M8 paired with either early M lens or ZM or VM equivalent ownership is not beyond means of somebody on limited budget.

[bocaburger]

Nice story. Back about 45 years ago I was that kid. I would've soiled myself if someone had offered to loan me a Leica. Most kids today aspire to a high-end smart phone with HD video capability to upload to social media and Youtube accounts. Then too, back in my day most kids aspired to a Polaroid Swinger (a fixed-focus model with a white plastic body) so they could get immediate prints to pass around. Plus ca change, plus la meme chose.

 

As for Leica making some sort of M-ish model affordable by the youth market, I'm not certain that's likely to happen unless maybe you're talking about the offspring of Saudi royalty or Chinese industrialists. It was never in Leica's business plan (even the CL was well above what the average teenager could afford), and yet here they are, arguably the longest-surviving camera manufacturer in the world. But I think before Leica aims for the 1-in-a-million teenager, they might give a consideration to the large number of adult, upper-middle-class guys like myself who no longer can muster the stomach to plunk down the cash for a new M lens today.

[gyoung]

I have come to the conclusion that there is really nothing that I like using that is as satisfying as the mechanical M cameras, and if there is to be no M9 for me (too expensive) the Fuji certainly doesnt hack it, I would rather go to an evf csc such as the Panasonic g1 I have used for a while, or a Nikon reflex which in digital form is very close to the film Nikons I have used for many years, and is affordable and reliable.

 

Gerry

[adan]

First, I would welcome an even cheaper way for young people to get to know the RF experience.

 

However, I hesitate to describe exactly what that "way" would be. In a snapshot of right-now-today, the Leica market is quite distorted (leaving aside the general economic mess).

 

Leica has always maintained that the "entry level" for Leica products was the used market. However:

 

> Digital Leicas are still too recent to fulfill the role of a 50-year-old M2 or 33-year-old M4-2 (my own entry camera). Not enough depreciation yet.

 

> Digital Leicas may not last long enough to function at 50 years of age.

 

> The dearth of new lenses and demand for ANY M lens has driven up the used-lens market to the "new" prices of just 6 years ago.

 

Given time, the used market may return to something more "normal." More and more used M8s and M9s will be available. Lens production will allow the "rich" market to trade up to factory-new lenses, putting the older lenses back in circulation.

 

As it stands, one can probably find a used M8 and 35 Summaron/Summarit for less than a new Canon 5D3. Which is, historically, a reasonable opportunity - I was offered a black M4 and 35 Summicron for $500 by a fellow college student in 1976 - when a new Canon F-1 body was $450.

 

I'd imagine that by 2012, when the M8 is 10 years old, one will be able to put together a basic Leica digital RF and lens package for under $2000. Which is not $500 - but is probably comparable when measured in "college tuition per semester" or "off-campus hamburger meals."

[earleygallery]

The Leica M stands almost alone today as a pretty unique product, the last surviving rangefinder system that offers film and digital options.

 

My father couldn't afford a Leica but used a Kodak lllc before moving on to a Pentax Spotmatic F. There were many options for those who wanted a rangefinder camera.

 

Now it's the Leica, or a Voigtlander (do Zeiss still make the film body?).

 

The Fuji cameras are all very interesting. I don't have any personal experience of them but the X100 and X1 pro would both be on my shortlist if I was looking for a quality digital compact. The X1 and X2, despite the quality of the photos I've seen, just don't appeal - they seem a bit too toy like to me, and I really hate the zoomy lens assembly.

 

Leica must surely be working on something similar to the X1 pro.

[Paul Reading]

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No matter how sensible your son is and no matter your personal circumstances, I would question the wisdom of allowing him to roam around with a piece of kit that valuable. He is a young lad and is potentially quite vulnerable to being mugged.

 

I would get him a either a Voitlander and dark room kit (I bet he would love it if he has never done B&W before) or something else less desirable. When he is a bit older and and possible is more able to use his discretion then I would loan him the M9.

[algrove]

John- I was in the Leica Akademie class with you.

 

Around here The Photographic Centre requires any kid taking an entry level class (they all have to start at entry level) must use and get the hang of using a film camera first, usually the first year or two. Then, if they want they can switch over to digital. Funny thing is, so I am told, that many prefer to stay with film even after 2 years.

[jaques]

what is needed is a cheaper RF (or simulated RF) digital option. Leica will not make it: or if they do it won't be cheap enough.

 

Your story reinforces my belief that the M9 has created a huge potential market for DRF cameras: a market Leica will never supply directly. Fuji understands how the young love retro things and made the X-100 (partly) for them.

 

I hope they keep thinking along those lines and make a new DRF camera- fiull frame or no. I hope it is M mount and totally kicks the M9's a!@#: better ISO performance, durability, weather sealing, new line of M lenses... the works.

 

It's not that I am anti-Leica- I am just very pro competition- and can no longer stomach (justify) Leica's rising prices.

 

Leica also needs it to keep on their toes and Daniels said as much in his recent interview.

[rramesh]

Timely post. I was in Orchard Singapore over the weekend to visit the new Leica store that had just opened at the Mandarin Hotel. In conjunction with the opening, an exhibition of photos was set up fronting the main pedestrian walkway.

 

... and in its midst was an M9 and S2 proudly displayed in glass cases.

 

... and you guessed it ... kids ogling at the cameras knowing that it must be really good, really expensive and really sought after.

 

Of course, they were not the target market and the staff could not really do anything other than to be really protective of the cameras.

[johnbuckley]

I appreciate these replies, and the chord this seems to strike. A couple of responses:

 

1) it may be that when an M10 is released, the price of an M8 falls to a point where at least a college student can see a way to buying one. But it also would be nice if there were a Leica camera -- and again, something like the Digilux 2 comes to mind -- that was both affordable and had enough rangefinder similarities (this is where Fuji have gotten smart, creating cameras that look like rangefinders) to capture kids who gravitate toward them, not big Nikons or Canons.

 

2) Paul, thanks for the reminder about lower cost CV lenses. As I would plan on "lending" my son the old M8, I wouldn't let him wander DC streets with it. But letting him use it when we are on vacation, etc. I believe could help make him appreciate what "real" photography is like, e.g. Setting aperture, shutter speed, ISO, etc.

 

3) Algrove, I hope my son's school offering darkroom experience helps him learn more. As might be typical of kids his age, he actually has gravitated toward photography from having learned to make films and use software in post production. Weird to say, but I think he is as turned on by the idea of learning Lightroom as he is by the idea of taking pictures! (And see you at a future Leica Akademie, I hope!)

[algrove]

John- I will be at the first B&W Akademie I can arrange with my, by then, new M hopefully in Florida early in the New Year. Long live B&W and B&W prints!

[amritsg]

I'm 18 and started my journey with Leica 2 years ago now. It's been a blessed journey. Funded partly by me working odd jobs and my dads help. I was probably one of those walking the streets of Singapore for the grand opening where the m monochrome looked just amazing. I know it's tough to afford. But hey it's a luxury and also a real mean piece of machinery youve got to sacrifice to get it at times. But when you do, you know it was worth it.

[almoore]

I was in Orchard Singapore over the weekend to visit the new Leica store...in its midst was an M9 and S2 proudly displayed in glass cases.... and you guessed it ... kids ogling at the cameras knowing that it must be really good, really expensive and really sought after.

 

That says more about the materialism at the core of Singaporean culture than it does about Leica. The original post is about a teenager that wants to take photographs, not drape himself in bling.

[johnbuckley]

I'm 18 and started my journey with Leica 2 years ago now. It's been a blessed journey. Funded partly by me working odd jobs and my dads help. I was probably one of those walking the streets of Singapore for the grand opening where the m monochrome looked just amazing. I know it's tough to afford. But hey it's a luxury and also a real mean piece of machinery youve got to sacrifice to get it at times. But when you do, you know it was worth it.

 

Good for you! Makes me really happy to read your post. Best of luck in your photographic endeavors.

[philipus]

There is a huge debate on this forum about what, besides the M10, Leica is and should be working on. I will add to this debate only this thought: I hope it is a camera that a young person, who is sophisticated enough to seek out a Leica M9 while on a visit to a city with a Leica store, could aspire to buy, as a step toward his dream of having a digital rangefinder worthy of the tradition he wants to participate in. The old Digilux 2 was such a camera. The X2 is not; I am talking about a camera that can provide manual functionality and some kind of viewfinder that offers the possibility to shoot in a "traditional" manner. I really hope there is something in the D2 tradition that is in Leica's forthcoming product roadmap.

 

I've read and re-read this thread a few times the last several days, but don't fully understand what it is about. I think - but please correct me if I am wrong - that it is about what John wrote in his last para, cited above.

 

If that is the case then I suspect that the truth is that Leica will not take this into consideration at all. All recent evidence - I'm thinking of the 50 APO and the MM - to the contrary. It seems to me Leica is wholly uninterested in providing a reasonable - by which I mean in comparison to other camera manufacturers - instep for new users.

 

Naturally there are plenty of affordable ways to learn rangefinder photography, including using Leica equipment. The problem, I venture to suggest, is that most people today focus on digital cameras and ignore the many excellent film cameras out there.