rosuna Posted June 17, 2012 Share #121 Â Posted June 17, 2012 Advertisement (gone after registration) There is zero chance that Leica will offer such a FF EVIL for less than $6K IMHO. It will be APS or it won't exist at all i'm afraid. Â An EVIL camera is cheaper to produce than a reflex or rangefinder camera of similar specifications. Â If you add to the equation a larger scale production... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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lct Posted June 17, 2012 Share #122 Â Posted June 17, 2012 ... and the death of M cameras... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rosuna Posted June 17, 2012 Share #123 Â Posted June 17, 2012 ... and the death of M cameras... Â Why? Â Leica can produce both types of cameras... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rosuna Posted June 17, 2012 Share #124 Â Posted June 17, 2012 The future of the M system will be reinforced if you can use M lenses on a different 24x36 mirrorless camera. Â I see the situation just in the opposite way... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjh Posted June 17, 2012 Share #125  Posted June 17, 2012 The M9 already is a mirrorless 36x24 mm camera and an M10 supporting live-view and maybe an optional EVF appears to be likely. What would still another mirrorless 36x24 mm camera have to offer, except being marginally cheaper if it doesn’t include a rangefinder? The M system doesn’t need reinforcements (on top of the M10); rather Leica needs a sufficiently different system since the M system isn’t for everyone. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bocaburger Posted June 17, 2012 Share #126  Posted June 17, 2012 The M9 already is a mirrorless 36x24 mm camera and an M10 supporting live-view and maybe an optional EVF appears to be likely. What would still another mirrorless 36x24 mm camera have to offer, except being marginally cheaper if it doesn’t include a rangefinder?  I'm playing devil's advocate here, because as current technology stands EVFs are far from the point I would consider one as an alternative to the Leica rangefinder/viewfinder (vs an adjunct, to facilitate the convenient use of long lenses and SLR lenses including macro).  But take away the rangefinder mechanism and I would think such an EVF camera could be made significantly smaller and lighter than an M9.  And in response to your comment about cost, I would say that it would be "marginally" cheaper only if it had a Leica nameplate and red dot. If, just for example, Ricoh made it, it might cost as much as a Canon 5DIII (based on the GXR outfitted with an M module and an EVF costs roughly as much as a prosumer APS-C DSLR). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rosuna Posted June 17, 2012 Share #127  Posted June 17, 2012 Advertisement (gone after registration) What would still another mirrorless 36x24 mm camera have to offer, except being marginally cheaper if it doesn’t include a rangefinder?  For the user: price, AF, smaller size...  For the company: synergies with the M and R (compatibility) and differentiation (relative to mirrorless APS-C systems by other manufacturers). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rosuna Posted June 17, 2012 Share #128 Â Posted June 17, 2012 What would still another mirrorless APS-C camera system have to offer, except being marginally cheaper? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdai Posted June 17, 2012 Share #129 Â Posted June 17, 2012 Whatever it is ... if it isn't full frame and doesn't provide precise and efficient focusing assistance, then it's not good - and pure waste of time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjh Posted June 17, 2012 Share #130  Posted June 17, 2012 For the user: price, AF, smaller size... Would it really be smaller? Even an APS-C camera like Fuji’s X-Pro1 is about the same size as the M9. The NEX-7 is smaller but not quite the design one would expect fom Leica (and again not 36x24). And AF? Is there any reasonably fast contrast-based AF for 36x24? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjh Posted June 17, 2012 Share #131  Posted June 17, 2012 What would still another mirrorless APS-C camera system have to offer, except being marginally cheaper? Compared to competing products it would certainly be more expensive but still considerably less expensive than an M. It’s main selling point would be Leica lenses, I suppose.  (Btw, today’s mirrorless systems aren’t particular cheap actually; you can get some DSLRs for less.) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
janki Posted June 17, 2012 Share #132  Posted June 17, 2012 Why should a new system camera from Leica absolutely be a rangefinder camera with an EVF clip as accessories? Is not it time to consider reverse - also for dedicated Leica M fans?  Let the camera initially be a purely EVF camera. Then, instead, Leica can offer a rangefinder as additional equipment for those who feel they absolutely need this, and will pay for it. Range Finder  A little bulky of course, but that is just normally with all accessories. You get used to it.:D Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill Posted June 17, 2012 Share #133 Â Posted June 17, 2012 So you would have them release a me too product? Really? Â Regards, Â Bill Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdai Posted June 17, 2012 Share #134 Â Posted June 17, 2012 Is there any reasonably fast contrast-based AF for 36x24? Â The contrast AF on D800 is actually very good as long as you don't use it to track a running dog ... in some cases I find it's more reliable and accurate than phase detect AF. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
oronet commander Posted June 17, 2012 Share #135  Posted June 17, 2012 It’s main selling point would be Leica lenses, I suppose.  Most, if not all, mirrorless systems can use Leica lenses now. Are we talking about all-new, APS-C only (to contain size), AF Leica lenses? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted June 17, 2012 Share #136 Â Posted June 17, 2012 Why would customers buy a $8k+ (or more including a clip-on EVF) rangefinder if they can have a $6k- full frame EVIL instead? This won't happen because Leica won't cannibalize their M system themselves. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
-ph- Posted June 17, 2012 Share #137 Â Posted June 17, 2012 Why would customers buy a $8k+ (or more including a clip-on EVF) rangefinder if they can have a $6k- full frame EVIL instead? This won't happen because Leica won't cannibalize their M system themselves. Â If a FF EVIL camera which takes Leica senses kills the M sales, then better Leica than Fuji make it! Â Peter Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rosuna Posted June 17, 2012 Share #138  Posted June 17, 2012 Would it really be smaller? Even an APS-C camera like Fuji’s X-Pro1 is about the same size as the M9. The NEX-7 is smaller but not quite the design one would expect fom Leica (and again not 36x24). And AF? Is there any reasonably fast contrast-based AF for 36x24?  The Fuji has an integrated optical viewfinder.  It should be as small as a M9 without the top cover. Well, maybe add a 1/2 cm flat top cover. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
algrove Posted June 17, 2012 Share #139 Â Posted June 17, 2012 My biggest problem with a clip on anything, is where will I be able to plant my Pez for those conversational portraits? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
farnz Posted June 17, 2012 Share #140 Â Posted June 17, 2012 My biggest problem with a clip on anything, is where will I be able to plant my Pez for those conversational portraits? Glue a hotshoe to the brim of your favourite baseball cap and put it there. Â Pete. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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