Guest stnami Posted March 8, 2007 Share #41  Posted March 8, 2007 Advertisement (gone after registration) By the way the post was just meant to highlight the fact that when viewed in RAW and magnified, he was super impressed with the "quality" of the image.  Images cannot be viewed as RAW data on the net and as they are downsized,images still pointless from a technical aspect  If you post an image on the net and it will be open to scrutiny wether you like it or not, you give up your right to dictate the terms  Carsten post the image in photo forum and if I find it I will, critique it for you.  Now those worms , yea not a problem I'll find a couple of early birds so I bid fare ye well     My aim was to get at least 30 replies and i did that so I am very happy. WOW!!.... says it all Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted March 8, 2007 Posted March 8, 2007 Hi Guest stnami, Take a look here Impressing a nikon man!-take 2. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
stunsworth Posted March 8, 2007 Share #42 Â Posted March 8, 2007 However, I don't really expect that too many people come to leica-camera-user to post pictures, but rather come here to discuss the equipment. Once you want to discuss photos, who cares what equipment you use... Â But where does a forum go when everything that there is to be said about the equipment has been said? And in some areas that's the case. What else is there left to say about an M5 or M6 that hasn't already been said? Â When I first started using Leicas I wanted to find out as much as I could about them, but now to be honest I feel I know as much as I need to. Apart from the release of a new item such as the M8, I'm personally more interested in the photographs. I realise this is a personal thing and other opinions exist, but given a choice between discussing different models of 35mm Summicrons and looking at Rolo's photographs I'd rather do the latter. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
carstenw Posted March 8, 2007 Share #43  Posted March 8, 2007 Techically the image does not show anything different that any good digital camera can do.I am sure it was a nice time of the day but that does not automatically translate into a good shot. The process.. I like that.... then poin.....t sorta compose..... and click, rarely creates good results Maybe the moral of the story is  Some Nikon men will be impressed with any image as long as they are being paid to print  imants, I could easily respond to your first sentence by saying that the vast majority of the photos you have on your site could have been taken with a Holga, or that you should read up on the rangefinder focusing concept, but that is really beside the point (I like a lot of your stuff, btw, so please don't take that as an insult, but rather, a counter-point). I don't happen to think that a P&S could have captured this light, but what I really wanted was commentary on the photo, not its technicalities. I mean, composition, balance, light vs. dark, what-have-you, but not technical stuff. Every M8 shot does not have to be proof of superior equipment.  I knew I was going to be taking a cheesy sunset shot when I got off the train on my way home. I chose the station deliberately (it was not my destination), and walked to where I thought I could get the best shot. I waited for no train to be in the way, and spent perhaps 2-3 minutes trying to figure out what I wanted in the shot and what not. In other words, knowing that the shot was not going to be a masterpiece anyway, I did due diligence.  If you told me that you don't like sunset shots, then I would have learned something about you. If you told me that you didn't like it, because it wasn't 'dark' or B&W, then I would have learned about you. If you told me that it didn't reveal anything of the essential nature of man (humanity), then I would have learned something about you (although this point is debatable). I was wondering if you could make a comment which would make me learn something about me (as a photographer)...  Btw, I am not a Nikon man, so I don't even know if you were looking at my shot (train station), or the OP's shots (sunset, beach).  Edit: I just saw the later post directed at me. I will wait until I have a shot I care about more deeply before posting in the photo forum. I was just curious what the exact criticism was with this one, since it was criticised, if perhaps indirectly. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
carstenw Posted March 8, 2007 Share #44  Posted March 8, 2007 But where does a forum go when everything that there is to be said about the equipment has been said? And in some areas that's the case. What else is there left to say about an M5 or M6 that hasn't already been said? When I first started using Leicas I wanted to find out as much as I could about them, but now to be honest I feel I know as much as I need to. Apart from the release of a new item such as the M8, I'm personally more interested in the photographs. I realise this is a personal thing and other opinions exist, but given a choice between discussing different models of 35mm Summicrons and looking at Rolo's photographs I'd rather do the latter.  The M5 has been around for 35 years or so, depending on the date you prefer to believe it came out, and the M6 for 23, so no surprises there. I suppose that in 6-12 months, most of us will be tired of examining the M8 as well.  In some sense, most of my shots with the M8 are still test shots...  I also find photos more interesting, of course, but there are short periods of time where a new camera is of more interest, superficially. Then everything gradually returns to normal... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stnami Posted March 8, 2007 Share #45 Â Posted March 8, 2007 Edit: I just saw the later post directed at me......... no never mentioned your shot always referred to the two initially posted. ".........could have been taken with a Holga, or that you should read up on the rangefinder focusing concept, but that is really beside the point Why? As far as the Holga aspect it could be a Fisher and Paykel. though they wouldn't give me the latitude mucking around with the images on computer.....no I am not offended about the Holga comment Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
carstenw Posted March 8, 2007 Share #46 Â Posted March 8, 2007 I was commenting on your "look", which I actually like very much. I guess you already got this, but it was a semi-sarcastic response to your "Techically the image does not show anything different that any good digital camera can do" comment, which I feel is beside the point. Anyway, moving right along... Â Actually, I am curious to know your feelings on Michael Ackermann? I just picked up Fiction and End Time City recently. His photos blow me away. They are so raw, like instinctual reactions rather than the carefully composed, retentive stuff I do. I saw his "Half Life" exhibition here in Berlin during the European Month of Photography, which is what clued me into his work. Unfortunately there is no book yet for this exhibition. I can hardly wait to see those photos again. Â And now for something completely different: I find these M8 raws so malleable! I never knew what you guys meant when this came up, but I am twisting and tweaking the photos and getting what I am looking for, whereas with the 5D, awesome camera in many ways, I found that if I tweaked too much, the shots would become brittle. What a great camera the M8 is! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stnami Posted March 8, 2007 Share #47 Â Posted March 8, 2007 Advertisement (gone after registration) Actually, I am curious to know your feelings on Michael Ackermann? I get back to you on this I have a class room of images coming up to waffle on about ....... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigrmurray Posted March 8, 2007 Share #48 Â Posted March 8, 2007 Other (simulated) Internet critiques. Ken: Â Thanks a lot for that link -- hilarious! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan States Posted March 8, 2007 Share #49 Â Posted March 8, 2007 Established professionals selling "art" to the masses need critics to validate their own self worth...People making photos for their personal enjoyment need encouragement and education. Â The crucial difference is that the critic will often deride the subject mercilessly in an attempt to prove their own authority. The educator will help the student understand what they did both wrong AND right. Â As I'm sure Michael is not planning on charging us for the privilege of viewing his photography I think he at least entitled to comments from a constructive viewpoint. Â For gods sake at least they aren't pictures of his the view from his driveway that seem to be the primary motifs of M8 owners so far! I didn't see a single desk lamp or street light shot at 2400..GOOD ON YOU BUDDY!!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted March 9, 2007 Share #50 Â Posted March 9, 2007 Guilty as charged for posting corny sunset shots! http://www.leica-camera-user.com/landscape-travel/18238-non-digital-sunset.html (explains my little exchange with Imants as well -do visit his website-) Â The Leica M8 will be bought and used by photographers of all levels . Nothing wrong with that. Therefore this forum should reflect the results of all these levels. My experience is that the quality of the camera is such that it will enhance the quality of any user. So a bad photographer will become a better bad photographer - Ok by me and I am happy to look at it. Back to the OP. So these are snapshot-style photographs. I think they are rather nice snapshot-style photographs and show one aspect of what this camera can do. It is good form in my opinion to reserve the really strong criticism for those that post something like " comments are welcome". For others, better say nothing or something friendly - like: " The soft focus enhances the dreamy atmosphere";) Much nicer.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fotografr Posted March 9, 2007 Share #51 Â Posted March 9, 2007 However, I don't really expect that too many people come to leica-camera-user to post pictures, but rather come here to discuss the equipment. Once you want to discuss photos, who cares what equipment you use... Â If I thought for a minute that was a concensus opinion here, I'd simply resign my forum membership and be on my way. I have always felt we were discussing equipment for the purpose of making it work optimally with our image making--not just to discuss it the way motorheads discuss their engines at a race track. Perhaps I've been wrong. Perhaps there are good reasons why at log on I notice a dozen or so people on the Photo Forum and 90 to 120 on the Digital Forum. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
smgorsch Posted March 9, 2007 Share #52 Â Posted March 9, 2007 This has to be the most disheartening thread I've read since coming to the forum. Anyone with the temerity to post this sort of derisive criticism ex cathedra, should be forced to read the innumerable & now reviled criticisms of the preceeding centuries. Â Of the revered Neoclassicist JJ INgres: "Ingres's intention is nothing less than to make art regress by four centuries, to carry us back to its infancy." Â The NYT called Duschamp's Armory display of the now iconic Nude Descending a Stairs "an explosion in a shingles factory." Â Clement Greenberg's seminal essay "Avant-Garde and Kitsch" (which entrenched the term Kitsch in modern English vernacular) contended that "all academic art is Kitsch"; for him the rules of the Academy (No sunsets with subject in center) merely entrenched mediocrity. Â Literary criticism is even more amusing (Woolf, Dickens, etc.) Â I am in no way contending that the OP had Great Art, but let's, at least in this forum, abide by the wisdom of the centuries -- "de gustibus non disputandum." Â stefan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie Roberts Posted March 9, 2007 Share #53 Â Posted March 9, 2007 Other (simulated) Internet critiques. Â Ken-- Â Really, really, really funny. Thanks! (I'm quoting it so others will get a look!) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
spylaw4 Posted March 9, 2007 Share #54 Â Posted March 9, 2007 Ken--Â Really, really, really funny. Thanks! (I'm quoting it so others will get a look!) Â Agreed - hilarious! :D Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
carstenw Posted March 9, 2007 Share #55 Â Posted March 9, 2007 If I thought for a minute that was a concensus opinion here, I'd simply resign my forum membership and be on my way. I have always felt we were discussing equipment for the purpose of making it work optimally with our image making--not just to discuss it the way motorheads discuss their engines at a race track. Perhaps I've been wrong. Perhaps there are good reasons why at log on I notice a dozen or so people on the Photo Forum and 90 to 120 on the Digital Forum. Â There is no need to resign, but the 1:10 ratio on the digital forum compared to any other forum on this board does push home the point: most are here to discuss digital photography. Â Actually, I am curious if anyone here knows of a board with a very high standard, purely for photo critique? I find that these hybrid boards have too large a range of skill levels to be consistently useful for pure critique. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted March 9, 2007 Share #56  Posted March 9, 2007 ...the 1:10 ratio on the digital forum compared to any other forum on this board does push home the point: most are here to discuss digital photography  I think a lot of that is due to the release of the M8 - a year ago the positions were pretty much reversed <grin>. But your premise is obviously correct, the camera forums are much more popular than the photography forums - and while I might like that to change I don't see it happening in the near future. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stnami Posted March 9, 2007 Share #57  Posted March 9, 2007 There is no need to resign, but the 1:10 ratio on the digital forum compared to any other forum on this board does push home the point: most are here to discuss digital photography... and the final image is integral part of that equation, so it is open to scruitiny. The 1:10 ratio does not mean we bury our heads in the sand  If I thought for a minute that was a concensus opinion here, I'd simply resign my forum membership and be on my way....concensus opinion doesn't mean that it is beyond reproach   The forum has been full of images ..I just got my m8 look at my photo of the concrete car space with my dog sitting... usual response is great, fantastic, but as soon as some one says otherwise a whole sector of the forum jumps up and down and screams don't do that because we said it was great so it has to be great.  NO techncal data or reference I will question why the image is in the digital forum. But if you just want to hold the camera, so be it, then again technical data will not be of importance.   Then again this highlights the relevence of the images on this thread  My aim was to get at least 30 replies and i did that so I am very happy. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisC Posted March 10, 2007 Share #58 Â Posted March 10, 2007 ... ...... The forum has been full of images ..I just got my m8 look at my photo of the concrete car space with my dog sitting... usual response is great, fantastic, but as soon as some one says otherwise a whole sector of the forum jumps up and down and screams don't do that because we said it was great so it has to be great...... Â Imant - Agreed. It reminds me of the Monty Python joke in Life of Brian where the multitude call back in unison to Brian; ..... 'yes, we are all individuals'. Â Personal [as distinct from commercial] photography which does not express the photographer's individuality merely simpers. A photographer's greatest asset is not the damned machine they use, but their individualism. I am excited by individualism in photography. Â The original poster to this thread clearly invited the forum to be as impressed by his pictures as the 'Nikon man' said he was whilst preparing to take money for making prints of the posted images. We were not being invited to judge the image's files because we only have internet Jpegs, therefore we were being invited to be impressed by the pictures. The individuals of the multitude, including some who surprised me, declared that the pictures were good and encouraged more of the same. I can live with that by being an individual and ignoring subsequent similar postings. Nevertheless, that conformity of response does not alter my initial observations on the OP's seascapes; they still simper, from conception to execution. Â Michael Bloom might feel savaged by me, which was not my intention as my norm is to encourage people to express themselves with this fantastically rich medium of ours. However, despite efforts by those promoting the 'dumbing down' of photography, not all photographs have equivalent merit. Michael's night beach scene, with the sun above the horizon burning paper white out of the histogram [and any subsequent print] did not merit world wide publishing on this forum. I expressed my view that the pictures are weak and I wished the pictures were elsewhere. I drew some flak for daring to saying so, and Michael got what he was after; the requisite number of replies on this thread that he sought. Â Altogether now;.........'We Are All Individuals'. Â Move over Imant, I might need to join you on your roof. Â ............................Chris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted March 10, 2007 Share #59 Â Posted March 10, 2007 It is not about the quality of the images - it is about the strength of the response. No matter that there are negatives to be said, it is, imo, better to say it softly, and save strong criticism for those that invite it. (like me ) I never sit on roofs, I always fear I may fall off..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tashley Posted March 10, 2007 Share #60  Posted March 10, 2007 What is the point of having a photo forum, if people insist on posting in the discussion forum?   I don't mind it at all - I would much prefer to work in one forum, treating the gear, the technical questions it raises and the images it produces as part of one large series of discussions.  Just my cents  tim Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.