Help jumping in...used X1, new X2, other??

[tnturnerx1]

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Just my opinion, but if you have to purchase an expensive camera now (not that the X1 is all that expensive now) I'd go with the X1. It takes fabulous images, and the price is low enough now. For more money, I'd wait to see what the X3 will be like. I did not purchase the X2 for various reasons. I've heard really good things about the Fujifilm x-Pro1 and would check it out. I have to admit, though, after using the X1, I love the simplicity, the small size, as well as the beautiful images. I'm almost a L-head now...

[Spaniard69]

I like the X2 also because of the simplicity. I don't think I want to look at other brands for now. Happy with my X2 and will not go back to DSLR or any other interchangeable lens system anymore.

 

If X3 is out, will get it as well....

[Reminic]

Hello Leicarox!

 

My wife later said "don't buy a demo, people thrash those things". True/false?? ;-)

From a supermarket? Hum, no I would pass, thanks.

From a Leica Store? Seems extremely unlikely to have been trashed.

What the store looks like the most could give a hint...

 

I don't have a great photographic/compositional eye yet

Can you hear that one-and-only great fixed focal length lens? It's beging you to take it!

 

A few month after I got my X1, the X100 was out and I was seriously questioning my choice. I don't anymore, the difference in color rendition and usability speaks for the X1, the difference in additional features (read: gadgetery) speaks for the X100, I favor the former qualities. And smaller is better, and I love the OVF way too much to find a use for the EVF anyway, so…

 

In short, I would say prefer a single lens camera (but keep the M8 or the GXR or their successors for your next camera after that one), and if like me you prefer the OVF then there's not a lot left to compensate for the X100's size (unless you want video). This then leaves us with the X1 or the X2, and the remaining question is how much you value the AF's speed in low-light...

 

Hoping these 2 cents helps!

 

 

Disclaimer: I'm a happy X1 user, my impartiality may be partial.

[Avatar]

I'll throw out .02 cents...

 

This talk about 'sharpness' is inevitable and frankly with all due respect to Steve Huff, I almost feel bad that many people have to rely on Blogs and reviews to make a decision. I know, we all read reviews but the X1/X2 are particularly easy camera's not to really 'get' or get the best results without a bit of work.

 

I bought my first x1 and didn't do the work to learn properly and sold it...Then later on I bought another one and finally 'got' this camera and it quickly became my favorite in many ways. Very different than the M9..I love and 'need' a couple of cameras but truly the X2 is helping me get images that would be harder to get than with an M series.

 

I posted some images in the Photo section taken with the X2, none of them were meant to be especially 'sharp'..I don't understand this preoccupation with sharpness..

 

It's almost those who know what the advantages of these camera's is, will just buy them. If you don't feel it and know, you most likely will be disappointed, especially if you keep reading blogs.

 

===

 

Just read the posts in this thread again, this is the second time I am suggesting NOT to get an X1 or X2..In the case of the OP, I think it might be a waste and you might not appreciate what the camera has to offer, that's not a knock against you at all. I just think there are cheaper and maybe better cameras for you to get. Hope this is not coming off as elitist and it's not meant to be at all. I think you will be more happy with something else (maybe).

[prk60091]

The x series (1&2) looks deceptively simple in fact at the outset Leica was derided for creating a $2000USD point and shoot camera.

 

At first I criticized in this forum the first few x1 images posted as not being "Leica like". Yet as time has progressed the photographers who have taken the time to master the camera have taken amazing images.

 

This camera (1or2) is not for the photographer who just wants a p&s camera with a Leica lens. S/he is likely to be disappointed in the results. This was perhaps the most frustrating camera for me 'to get' until I 'figured out' that all that I learned about exposure using film translated perfectly to the x1.

 

It took me close to a year to feel that I was utilizing my x1 to the max.

 

I would not recommend the x series to anyone unless they knew the pitfalls and the learning curve. But the rewards are spectacular.

[Avatar]

The x series (1&2) looks deceptively simple in fact at the outset Leica was derided for creating a $2000USD point and shoot camera.

 

At first I criticized in this forum the first few x1 images posted as not being "Leica like". Yet as time has progressed the photographers who have taken the time to master the camera have taken amazing images.

 

This camera (1or2) is not for the photographer who just wants a p&s camera with a Leica lens. S/he is likely to be disappointed in the results. This was perhaps the most frustrating camera for me 'to get' until I 'figured out' that all that I learned about exposure using film translated perfectly to the x1.

 

It took me close to a year to feel that I was utilizing my x1 to the max.

 

I would not recommend the x series to anyone unless they knew the pitfalls and the learning curve. But the rewards are spectacular.

 

Revisiting this thread and for a minute I wondered if I wrote this.. You said it better than me but I agree with every sentiment.

 

Best outing with the X2 so far was yesterday...at times tough conditions for me to meter properly...I was confused actually..and like you just used experience making my best compromise/guess.

 

http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/people/245553-july-4th.html

[edinsiam]

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X1/X2 users!!! A question re sharpness!

 

I've never been preoccupied with sharpness at all at all, and I actually do not even like too sharp photos (I am an M8 user and prefer older, soft lenses, to give you an idea); but today I tried a second hand X1, thinking it'd be a nice addition for everyday shooting, and, to my surprise, I found that the images were not sharp at all in DNG. (They were sharp in out-of-camera JPG).

 

So now I wonder: do you always have to sharpen your X1/2's DNG photos in PP in order to get them decently sharp?

 

Thanks a lot for your input.

 

Ed

[sfowler]

X1/X2 users!!! A question re sharpness!

 

I've never been preoccupied with sharpness at all at all, and I actually do not even like too sharp photos (I am an M8 user and prefer older, soft lenses, to give you an idea); but today I tried a second hand X1, thinking it'd be a nice addition for everyday shooting, and, to my surprise, I found that the images were not sharp at all in DNG. (They were sharp in out-of-camera JPG).

 

So now I wonder: do you always have to sharpen your X1/2's DNG photos in PP in order to get them decently sharp?

 

Thanks a lot for your input.

 

Ed

 

Personally I always sharpen my photos a bit in lightroom when I am working with RAW images. Even when I was using my Canon 5D or others cameras and Zeiss lenses. I always add sharpening to my photos a bit. This is a normal routine for me. Here is one image that I worked with in Lightroom that was a RAW image and I had sharpened like I would normally in Lightroom and it looks fine to me and taken with the X2. I used a bit of alien-skin but that's irrelevant to the image or discussion here. Most my images created in my past have been Zeiss lenses on different cameras. I have always added sharpness to my raw images.Lightroom I think starts out at around 20 and I think i push it to almost 50 and radius usually no more than 1.9 if I am remembering this right and I do some masking as well and a little detail and clarity. I am not in front of my lightroom computer so I am doing this off the top of my head. I like the fact that the OOC images from the X2 are sharp as is, but if and when I need to use a raw image then I want that ability. So I think its normal if you ask me to add sharpening to a RAW image since I have always done that. But of course thats just my two cents. Hope that helps.

[edinsiam]

Thanks a lot, Sflower. I Am not still sure if we are talking about the same thing. I am always happy with the raw files that come out of my M8 and I never had to sharp them, but the raw files I got out of the X1 I tried are simply not sharp at all and would definitely need some PP sharpening. I am trying to understand whether this is the norm with an X1 (/X2). I am actually starting to wonder whether the particular camera I tried is somehow defected.

[sfowler]

Thanks a lot, Sflower. I Am not still sure if we are talking about the same thing. I am always happy with the raw files that come out of my M8 and I never had to sharp them, but the raw files I got out of the X1 I tried are simply not sharp at all and would definitely need some PP sharpening. I am trying to understand whether this is the norm with an X1 (/X2). I am actually starting to wonder whether the particular camera I tried is somehow defected.

 

I have a couple of photos here to help you. Hopefully this helps. These were all RAW files. The top files are focused on the big red thing. The bottom photos are focused on the flower.

 

The photos are minimized here but the full photo are on flickr associated with the link. One is not sharpened and one is sharpened just a bit. I have added a screen shot of the sharpening amount as well that I use.

 

The link to the full photos on flick are here.

Link to full photos

 

Hope this helps,

 

Sam

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

[sfowler]

If you go to the original pictures and go original and look at them in the full size - and look at them that deep - you will see the sharpening and no sharpening - but if you don't go 100% on the picture...you can't really tell any difference in the pictures. I always add a bit of sharpening to all my pictures. I don't think I have ever not added some small amount of sharpening to any of my pictures.Some people don't and some people do. I know you mentioned you like soft photos...thats cool. I like that as well sometimes...and sometimes I like sharp. if your getting softer photos in your RAW than mine then I would look into service. Can you show me some files that are soft that your talking about? I don't have a problem with mine. I think mine are fine from the RAW files. I am comparing this thought process of mine to my Zeiss lenses. I have never owned a Leica before till now and I am very pleased with my output from the camera. I give it full thumbs up and have no regrets. I would like to see a couple of your photos that your talking about.

 

Take care and have a great day and I hope this helps,

 

Sam

[edinsiam]

Thank you very, very much for the samples, Sam. I would definitely say that there is something with that camera then - which, by the way, I have not picked up. I only tried it at the shop.

 

I guess that this may be a good reason to be careful when buying 2nd hand X1's then, and maybe one to even look int some new x2's... (Damn temptation!)

 

Ed

[threeputt]

Sam that was cool of you to take the trouble like this. Ed, I have been hem-hawing around just like you for weeks upon weeks. I do believe I found every posted image there is on the internet from the X2. Sam's (and others') efforts to help others such as myself since he got his X2 are to be applauded. His work is a big factor in my deciding to go for it. I finally pulled the trigger on a new X2 and it should be here by Friday (if I'm lucky). I know it's a pile of money, but I know I can give it a thorough trial and return it if I'm not happy. I don't anticipate that happening however

 

Jeff

[sfowler]

Sam that was cool of you to take the trouble like this. Ed, I have been hem-hawing around just like you for weeks upon weeks. I do believe I found every posted image there is on the internet from the X2. Sam's (and others') efforts to help others such as myself since he got his X2 are to be applauded. His work is a big factor in my deciding to go for it. I finally pulled the trigger on a new X2 and it should be here by Friday (if I'm lucky). I know it's a pile of money, but I know I can give it a thorough trial and return it if I'm not happy. I don't anticipate that happening however

 

Jeff

I am glad to have helped and appreciate your kind words Jeff. I know its a boat load of money even for me. But I can say one thing - I dont regret buying the camera at all. This is actually the most expensive camera I have ever owned. Thats mostly why I did all this testing and research on this camera. I wanted to be sure I was going to keep it. Its a keeper!! But I know how you feel when you look at the price tag!! I have this insured as well and guarantee you if it gets damaged - "Like a good neighbor State Farm is here". LOL

 

Again thanks again for recognizing my hard work and noticing all my images on Flickr for testing purposes.

 

Have a great day Jeff and happy shooting.

 

Sam

[edinsiam]

Thanks to both for all the input and the kind words.

 

Ed

[NZDavid]

Still deciding, Leicarox? Why not wait till Photokina in September to see what's new?

 

You've suggested an interesting range of cameras, all very different. I have the M9 and M film cameras, and used to have an X1. I also have the D-Lux 5, which is a very capable compact. Here are a few more thoughts to ponder:

 

Your main choice seems to be rangefinder vs AF compact.

 

Focusing. I am used to rangefinders and prefer manual focusing. Which do you prefer? Autofocus is less precise than rangefinder focusing but works fine in most circumstances and can actually sometimes be faster. I'd definitely go for the faster AF on the X2 over the X1. The GXR lets you use Leica lenses and others, but manual focus via LCD looks fiddly. I have not used it.

 

Viewfinder. If you opt for X1 or X2, I would recommend an accessory optical viewfinder as the LCD is often impossible to see in bright light. The Voigtländer one is good. However, the LCD is useful for liveview framing in dimmer light.

 

Lenses. The rangefinder wil let you use a choice of wonderful lenses. Great if you want to throw the background out of focus or need an ultra wide angle. But the 35mm lens on the X1 and X2 is a first-class optic and f/2.8 is fast most of the time. The GXR lets you use a variety of lenses.

 

Size and weight. The Leica M is more compact than an SLR but the X1 or X2 are even smaller and lighter which you will find easier when traveling.

 

Image quality. The X1 is superb. It may be better at high ISO than the M9. Of course, you can tweak images in PP, but quality is excellent right out of the camera. I am not sure about M8 or GXR IQ at high ISOs.

 

Technology and longevity. In the digital world it is always evolving. Of the cameras you mention, the X2 is the latest and the M8 the oldest. Although the M8 produces great pictures and you may or may not like rangefinder handling, be aware you would be getting significantly older technology. The X2 is the latest evolution of the X1 which was already a good design, with some idiosyncrasies. You would also get a two-year warranty. That could be significant. (I had to send the X1 back because dust got onto the sensor and then the sensor failed. A fact of life with digital products.)

 

On balance, my recommendation would be a new X2. I think you would be delighted. It's still cheaper than a secondhand M8 and you get the peace of mind of a new camera and warranty. Then concentrate on composition and getting the most out of it. If it really isn't right, you can trade it for an M later on.

 

Final question: What does your wife think? Put savings into a nice trip somewhere!

[Mixalis]

Newbie needing advice here.. :-)

 

I'm trying to choose something to jump in with...

 

X1 demo w/full warranty - $1500

X2 - $2000

Ricoh GXR + M-Mount + lens - $2500+

Used M8 + lens - $3500+

 

Any/all advice welcome!

(BTW, Leaning towards the X1 for some reason)

 

I would choose the new X2 over an X1 because the price difference isn't all that great. The X2 is the better camera as it should be. You can't compare with the M8 simply because the M8 is a bigger, heavier system camera. I had an M8 (as a second body for my M system) which I used to carry around "just in case" much as I now carry the X2. It wore a 28mm Elmarit all the time, so it was really just a big X2. So I sold the M8 body and bought the X2 for more or less the same price. If I hadn't also had an M9 I would have kept the M8 as the better all-round choice.

 

If you must have a system camera and can justify the extra cost, go for an M8. But for a highly portable fixed-lens camera capable of matching the M8 on output, stick with the X1 or X2.

[tom0511]

M8 vs x1/x2 is totally different feeling.

M8 you can use all kind of different lenses, has better IQ up to ISO 640 and worse over ISO 640 than x1/x2. M8 has the nice viewfinder.

 

The x1/x2 are much much smaller but dont offer the other things mentioned.

 

So I think you need both

 

Regarding the x1 I can only say that I find it has better color and clearer images than the Fuji x100 - but the x100 has a nice built in viewfinder and a faster lens.

Then the x1 is even smaller and much lighter than the x100.

 

EVF...I have tried and owned several but I am not a fan of it. Also putting the EVF on the x2 makes the camera too big IMO.

 

I thought to replace my x1 with the x2 but I think I will wait and see.

The AF of the x1 is not fast, but the camera can not be called sluggish.

If you prefocus with half pressed button taking the image is very fast.

 

What I love about the x1/x2 is the simple and intuitive user interface and the images that are allmost ready to print when they leave the camera.

[sfowler]

M8 vs x1/x2 is totally different feeling.

M8 you can use all kind of different lenses, has better IQ up to ISO 640 and worse over ISO 640 than x1/x2. M8 has the nice viewfinder.

 

The x1/x2 are much much smaller but dont offer the other things mentioned.

 

So I think you need both

 

Regarding the x1 I can only say that I find it has better color and clearer images than the Fuji x100 - but the x100 has a nice built in viewfinder and a faster lens.

Then the x1 is even smaller and much lighter than the x100.

 

EVF...I have tried and owned several but I am not a fan of it. Also putting the EVF on the x2 makes the camera too big IMO.

 

I thought to replace my x1 with the x2 but I think I will wait and see.

The AF of the x1 is not fast, but the camera can not be called sluggish.

If you prefocus with half pressed button taking the image is very fast.

 

What I love about the x1/x2 is the simple and intuitive user interface and the images that are allmost ready to print when they leave the camera.

 

I am very happy with my X2. I agree with you that its very user friendly and simple. I have had SLR's and my X2 is just easier and the image quality is as good as my SLR's. I am although on the fence swinging back and forth with the M8 and the M9. I intend on getting one of them soon. There are times I like to ahve a full frame and then there are times when you have a full frame you wish you had a crop sensor for the extra reach. I have had a Canon 5D and my 35mm was a real 35mm. But there were a few times I wished it was a 50mm. So I ahd to walk up and use my feet for the extra mm. Now if I was on a crop sensor I wouldn't have had to walk closer. That's why there are benfits to both especially the price difference. But regarding the X2...phenomenal camera in my opinion. I have not been disappointed at all since owning it. knock on wood.

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Hallo,

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[jim sink]

Just bought a used X1 and have no regrets. It is a great camera and I've been using Leicas for forty-two years.