gravastar Posted March 9, 2007 Share #261 Â Posted March 9, 2007 Advertisement (gone after registration) To be objective about comparing pre and post firmware upgrade shutter noise you have to compare the same shutter speeds. I think you will find with the new firmware there is a delay between the "safety catch" being released and the shutter firing which depends upon the shutter speed. At low speeds the change in sound is more noticeable due to the delay. Â Bob. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted March 9, 2007 Posted March 9, 2007 Hi gravastar, Take a look here New Firmware 1.092 thoughts/ Read instructions. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
eronald Posted March 9, 2007 Share #262  Posted March 9, 2007 To be objective about comparing pre and post firmware upgrade shutter noise you have to compare the same shutter speeds. I think you will find with the new firmware there is a delay between the "safety catch" being released and the shutter firing which depends upon the shutter speed. At low speeds the change in sound is more noticeable due to the delay. Bob.  Is being objective the latest fad back there in Cantab ? Here in Paris we believe in subjective sense-data   Edmund (ex. King's). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
skimmel Posted March 9, 2007 Share #263  Posted March 9, 2007 To be objective about comparing pre and post firmware upgrade shutter noise you have to compare the same shutter speeds. I think you will find with the new firmware there is a delay between the "safety catch" being released and the shutter firing which depends upon the shutter speed. At low speeds the change in sound is more noticeable due to the delay. Bob.  Thanks. So, if I understand correctly, this delays the response time for picture taking (increases shutter lag)? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
barjohn Posted March 9, 2007 Share #264 Â Posted March 9, 2007 I have discovered another small error and it may just be on my camera but the viewfinder display of shutter speed has one segment missing on the least significant digit. It is the upper left vertical segment (7 segment LED). Numbers like 4, 5, 6, 8 etc. do not appear correctly. I don't remeber seeing it before but maybe it was there all along and I just now noticed it. Anyone else? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevez4 Posted March 9, 2007 Share #265 Â Posted March 9, 2007 Steve--Maybe a bit nit-picking, but: Â Do you mean that the shutter should be quieter? Â To me, 'shutter damping' refers to reducing shutter curtain bounce--something I haven't seen mentioned in regard to the M8. Â Or am I off the wall on this? Â --HC Â Yes, quieter shutter. Thanks for the explanation. Thanks too to everyone for sharing their experiences with the new upgrade. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
barjohn Posted March 9, 2007 Share #266 Â Posted March 9, 2007 Thanks. So, if I understand correctly, this delays the response time for picture taking (increases shutter lag)? Â I can't detect any shutter lag or difference in shutter performance from old to new. If you look at the spectrum analysis of the sound done in this post: http://www.leica-camera-user.com/digital-forum/17689-firmware-v-1-91-m8-available-19.html and assum (he doesn't say) a shutter speed of 1/250 or 4msec from open to close, there is about a 2 msec delay caused by the pre-release. If the shutter speed was faster it is even less. Your reaction time isn't likely to be fast enough for 2-4msec to make much difference. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Sievers Posted March 9, 2007 Share #267 Â Posted March 9, 2007 Advertisement (gone after registration) This camera is alot of things,but quiiet it is not (compared to M6 and M7). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
eronald Posted March 9, 2007 Share #268  Posted March 9, 2007 I can't detect any shutter lag or difference in shutter performance from old to new. If you look at the spectrum analysis of the sound done in this post: http://www.leica-camera-user.com/digital-forum/17689-firmware-v-1-91-m8-available-19.html and assum (he doesn't say) a shutter speed of 1/250 or 4msec from open to close, there is about a 2 msec delay caused by the pre-release. If the shutter speed was faster it is even less. Your reaction time isn't likely to be fast enough for 2-4msec to make much difference.   It's not reaction time, it's the time you predict it'll fire that counts. Canon actually have a menu selection that avoids shutter delay variation by *lengthening* it. Also, for the Leica we know there is an additional small predelay where it is doing something, but has anyone looked at the silent lag variation ? My impression is the shutter lag has perceptibly increased, too.  Edmund  Edmund Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marknorton Posted March 9, 2007 Share #269 Â Posted March 9, 2007 I have discovered another small error and it may just be on my camera but the viewfinder display of shutter speed has one segment missing on the least significant digit. It is the upper left vertical segment (7 segment LED). Numbers like 4, 5, 6, 8 etc. do not appear correctly. I don't remeber seeing it before but maybe it was there all along and I just now noticed it. Anyone else? Â John, I don't see that on my cameras... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
barjohn Posted March 9, 2007 Share #270  Posted March 9, 2007 It's not reaction time, it's the time you predict it'll fire that counts. Canon actually have a menu selection that avoids shutter delay variation by *lengthening* it. Also, for the Leica we know there is an additional small predelay where it is doing something, but has anyone looked at the silent lag variation ? My impression is the shutter lag has perceptibly increased, too. Edmund  Edmund  The 2msec I was talking about is the pre-delay. If you are that quick, you could easily factor it in since it may be a constant (can't be sure without a spectrum analysis over a range of shutter speeds). However, normal average human reaction time from the time you see an event until you react to it is 200 to 270msec (Source Wikipedia.org). so it would be highly unlikely that even if the shutter speed had been 1/60 sec or 16.6 msec meaning the predelay we see in the graph is about 8 msec, that it would effect your time to capture an image. If you can tell the difference between 8000 of a second you are one quick hombre! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
barjohn Posted March 9, 2007 Share #271 Â Posted March 9, 2007 John, I don't see that on my cameras... Â Bummer, I don't think I will return it for a bad LED segment, at least not now. Maybe if it suffers some other failure I will. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marknorton Posted March 9, 2007 Share #272 Â Posted March 9, 2007 I can't detect any shutter lag or difference in shutter performance from old to new. If you look at the spectrum analysis of the sound done in this post: http://www.leica-camera-user.com/digital-forum/17689-firmware-v-1-91-m8-available-19.html and assum (he doesn't say) a shutter speed of 1/250 or 4msec from open to close, there is about a 2 msec delay caused by the pre-release. If the shutter speed was faster it is even less. Your reaction time isn't likely to be fast enough for 2-4msec to make much difference. Â John, I don't undertstand your analysis. In Bob's original post: Â http://www.leica-camera-user.com/digital-forum/17689-firmware-v-1-91-m8-available-19.html#post190486 Â We don't know the horizontal timing but if you work on the basis of the shutter release and "wind-on" time being about half a second, that extra pre-release step looks to be of the order of 25mS. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
barjohn Posted March 9, 2007 Share #273 Â Posted March 9, 2007 True, we don't know the horizontal axis values; however, if you look at the 1.09 version and look at the portion that represents the time from initiate shutter open to shutter closed based on his description, it is that first portion from the rapid rise to the rapid fall with some ringing at 5khz thrown in toward the end. Then guessing at various shutter speeds like 1/250, 1/60 or 1/30 we can estimate the approximae amount of horizontal axis value at 4msec, 8msec and 16msec. As you can see, the pre-delay time in horizontal distance from first rise to the first shutter rise is about 1/2 the horizontal distance for the shutter time hence depending on shutter speed we would get a time ranging from 2 to 8 msec for the pre-delay time. The total time including shutter cocking we know must be less than 500msec or we couldn't shoot 2 frames per sec. In fact, total time is probably less than 250msec to allow settling time and buffer transfer time between shots. Does that explain my reasoning? Â Even if we assumed your timing is correect a pre-release time of 25msec is 1/10 of the average human response time of 250msec meaning that for 99.9% of us it wouldn't make any difference in our shot. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlmuck Posted March 9, 2007 Share #274 Â Posted March 9, 2007 A new oddness. Wouldn't have seen this in 1.09, but possibly in 1.091. Â If you are "reviewing" photos and select one of the "multiple images" modes (4 or 9 on the screen) and then move the focus from one image to the other, the "shot info" does not change as you select photos. The picture # does change but not the ISO or shutter speed. Â Not a big issue, but certainly a bug. Â c. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marknorton Posted March 9, 2007 Share #275 Â Posted March 9, 2007 I agree, that's a bug... I do hope Leica are taking note of all of this... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr.khb Posted March 9, 2007 Share #276 Â Posted March 9, 2007 Now I found time to check on the new firmware version. Â After uploading the new version I took some pictures. 1. AWB has an issue. ISO 160, 320, 640, 1250 color temperatue 3500K, ISO 2500 color temperature 5600K. Did not change anything than the ISO! I can repeat this, always different color temperature at ISO 2500. 2. To me, the standard color temperature in AWB is too low (too cold). 3. I had a frozen camera. During the conversion of the shot in the camera (red light flashing), I wanted to change ISO (you can select the menu). I confused the camera. No shot was possible anymore. Turn off - turn on, back to life! Still a bug? Â I'm very pleased with the noise. I was shooting DNG. On display not so nice at 1250 and 2500, but after conversion with standard options in Capture One LE much better than with the old version. Even JPG out of the camera is now much better! Thanks to Leica engineers! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted March 9, 2007 Share #277  Posted March 9, 2007 Now I found time to check on the new firmware version. After uploading the new version I took some pictures. 1. AWB has an issue. ISO 160, 320, 640, 1250 color temperatue 3500K, ISO 2500 color temperature 5600K. Did not change anything than the ISO! I can repeat this, always different color temperature at ISO 2500. 2. To me, the standard color temperature in AWB is too low (too cold).  I don't know if perhaps Leica engineers/developers like low colour temperature. I always thought the colour temperatures on my previous Digilux 2 were a little on the cool side. I tended to use the cloudy setting on a sunny day to compensate and reduce the blue tinge. I was told but cannot verify it from personal experience, that the standard JPEG colour temperatures on the otherwise nearly identical Panasonic, were set warmer.  Wilson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
steich Posted March 9, 2007 Share #278  Posted March 9, 2007 I can confirm that my M8 with 1.092 shows "90mm" on the info screen although my 2/90 ´cron is not coded. ;-)))) How did they do that? Frame selector? Stefan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted March 9, 2007 Share #279  Posted March 9, 2007 I can confirm that my M8 with 1.092 shows "90mm" on the info screen although my 2/90 ´cron is not coded. ;-))))How did they do that? Frame selector? Stefan  Stefan,  I have just tried with my Elmarit-M 90 and it does detect any lens on the EXIF (lens coding to on), so it is not the frame selector. It must be detecting a screw head on the Summicron 90 mount. Showing a 90mm lens is the only indication I could get show with any hand coding exercise with one blob on the 21mm Biogon mount and the lens selector held to 28/90 as the shutter release was pushed.  Wilson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gravastar Posted March 9, 2007 Share #280 Â Posted March 9, 2007 ........3. I had a frozen camera. During the conversion of the shot in the camera (red light flashing), I wanted to change ISO (you can select the menu). I confused the camera. No shot was possible anymore.Turn off - turn on, back to life! Still a bug?............ I can't get mine to do that, either with DNG only or DNG+JPG fine. If I'm quick I can complete changing the ISO before the red light stops flashing. It's also OK if I'm slower and have to complete some of the button pushes after the camera is no longer writing to the card. Â Like many software problems maybe you have to push a button at just the right time. Is your problem repeatable? Â Bob. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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