New Firmware 1.092 thoughts/ Read instructions

[mwilliamsphotography]

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First chance to try the new firmware.

 

Seems good. ISO 1250 and 2500 appears to have been improved.

 

Best part has been direct processing in ARC with color looking pretty close without altering the default I have set for the Canons ... which is good news because I dump all wedding shots into one file and sort by time shot to keep everything in sequence.

 

Irakly came by for a chat, and I did a quick grab shot for us to see how the new firmware looks ... M8, 75/1.4 @ f/1.4 IR filter, no crop, ISO 2500. a little noise reduction applied selectively in darks:

 

(that's not banding in the background light areas, it's an OOF off white brick wall)

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[Guest guy_mancuso]

Someone else reported that also and it happened to me before I put 1.092 on and removed the battery and it reset itself, which I never ran into using the beta 1.091 but 1.092 loaded and is working fine. Also the card naming is the same here . The DMR i could put a unique name in the M8 not so but I still recommend always formating in camera.

[wparsonsgisnet]

Marc, would you explain how you reduce noise in the dark areas?

 

tnx,

[Guest guy_mancuso]

First chance to try the new firmware.

 

Seems good. ISO 1250 and 2500 appears to have been improved.

 

Best part has been direct processing in ARC with color looking pretty close without altering the default I have set for the Canons ... which is good news because I dump all wedding shots into one file and sort by time shot to keep everything in sequence.

 

Irakly came by for a chat, and I did a quick grab shot for us to see how the new firmware looks ... M8, 75/1.4 @ f/1.4 IR filter, no crop, ISO 2500. a little noise reduction applied selectively in darks:

 

(that's not banding in the background light areas, it's an OOF off white brick wall)

 

 

I agree Marc the noise is cleaning up pretty good , i almost want to say a full stop but that maybe a push but a half stop easy improvement. There tweaking the color in the DNG no question there

[Guest guy_mancuso]

Looking at that Lux shot makes me want to scream that it is reported to be discontinued . Love this lens and so glad i got it a couple weeks ago.

[Jamie Roberts]

Ok, Jamie, so you thing possibility some profile will easy fix up small differents for people what have already got many Heliopan filters?

 

@ Ferenc, yes, I think it's probably a little post operation in PS for any filter differences here; easy to apply in batch. I don't even think you'd need an actual colour profile, but in C1 Pro you could save a colour tweak to an existing profile that would also take care of it.

 

I see a difference in the new firmware without filters--and that's good. With the filter I've got, I'm also impressed. And just look at Marc's high ISO shot; my 1.06 camera just didn't produce files like that.

 

@ Bill, you can sharpen your files quite a bit with the M8, actually. Sharpening isn't always about creating edges, which I agree--the M8 is totally sharp enough.

 

It's also about local contrast. Try running a smart sharpen run on an M8 file with a high radius setting and a very low amount. I think you'll be surrprised at what you find.

 

I also, as I said, like applying noise reduction in RAW. You can gain back most of the printable detail lost (as any Canon owner knows) without artifacts, but especially without luminance noise (just makes for less processing afterwards, is all--Neat Image or Noise Ninja do exactly the same thing--apply sharpening--after they mush the noise. I just like doing it in RAW, is all).

[ho_co]

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Leica is supplying complimentary filters now (if they actually do it one day), just to make up for the obligation to use IR cut filters. But what about in two, three years from now? Will I HAVE to buy Leica filters (when we all know the ridiculous prices of anything Leica) just to get decent blacks?

Olivier--

I understand your annoyance, and it is certainly legitimate to see the issue as you do.

 

On the other hand, Sean has said he 'would not be surprised' to see the Leica filters come in at lower pricepoints than the B+W equivalents. Perhaps Leica will be making them available at reduced margin simply because they are a necessary part of the kit. We'll have to wait and see, of course.

 

But we--you and I--could also be faulted for being early adopters. You bought Heliopans because they were available. I bought a single 49mm Schneider 486 from Edmunds Optical (for almost $200!) because that was the only place I could find the filter. And in my case, that was double over-kill, because to this date I still haven't got my M8.

 

It's too early to know where these firmware changes are going. Theoretically, the best thing is quit worrying, quit reading this board, take some pictures, and check things out in six months.

 

But neither you, I, nor anyone else here is the kind of person who could do that.

 

--HC

[ho_co]

I always like to give my Cards a (unique, personal) Volume Name. Leica suggests/demands that all cards are formatted 'in camera' - and gives the card a default Volume Name of 'NONAME', and no facility to change it.

 

So I have to remove the card and use my Mac to change it. This seems a very amateur way of doing things, not at all what I would expect of a professional piece of Firmware.

David--

I've wanted to do the same with my Leica digicams' cards but been afraid to since the camera names them NONAME.

 

Have you been renaming cards with the M8 for a while with no difficulties? It's clunky to have to do it repeatedly from the computer as you say, but if it works, that's good news.

 

--HC

[wparsonsgisnet]

PROPOSAL --

 

To those who have a Heliopan filter -- get in touch with Edmund and see if:

 

1. You have a Heliopan filter that will fit one of his lenses,

2. You can send him your filter so that he can develop a profile for this brand of filter

 

He developed one for B-W for v1.091 at my request and I used it very happily (for a few days, until 1.092 appeared).

 

Regards,

[timwalker]

Hadn't thought of that but i guess it could be. I haven't had any trouble with it up to now.

[hammam]

They have had some since December. When the first few IR issues came out in November, I emailed the Canadian B+W distributer and asked about the availibility. When the distributor replied, he said he had just got the same email from Camtec. He immedialtely ordered all he could get from Germany plus put an order in for the sizes that had to be made. Thanks to Camtec, the stock of 486 filters in Canada was ordered well before it was known we will all need them.

 

I also mentioned this numerous times when they came into stock in December and I got my 39mm filters from Camtec/Leica Boutique in Montreal.

 

I don't know, Rob, just a couple of weeks ago, Jean didn't have any left, in 39 at least. Now, they have some, and in other diameters as well. I just got one, and I will see what my black woolen «tuque» looks like under that lamp.

 

BTW, what is the status of the two Leica complimentary filters? Anybody received theirs yet? My C/V 28/1.9 has arrived just today but I don't have the 46 filter I ordered from Leica a month ago. Should I give up and buy one?

[hammam]

 

@... Bill, you can sharpen your files quite a bit with the M8, actually. Sharpening isn't always about creating edges, which I agree--the M8 is totally sharp enough.

 

It's also about local contrast. Try running a smart sharpen run on an M8 file with a high radius setting and a very low amount. I think you'll be surrprised at what you find...

 

 

Yes, in PS I use Amount 20, Radius 60, Threshold 1, then refine with the Fade function under Edit if need be. I call it the «Leica glow», whatever that means

[gravastar]

......................On the other hand, Sean has said he 'would not be surprised' to see the Leica filters come in at lower pricepoints than the B+W equivalents. Perhaps Leica will be making them available at reduced margin simply because they are a necessary part of the kit. We'll have to wait and see, of course..........

 

About 6 weeks ago my dealer in London showed me the official Leica price list which included the filters. I wasn't pleased at all, they were much more expensive than the B+W 486. I wish I'd taken note but I can't remember the figures. Suffice to say I immediately ordered several B+W ones from foto-huppert.de and have just given them a further order.

 

Bob.

[hammam]

Marc, this 2500 shot is incredible, the noise is so controlled. Even if you did some post-prod noise-suppressing, it's impressive. I did a quick test at 1250, and it IS good. Opens up new horizons. Who needs f/1.4 anymore? Just kidding, but still.

[Guest guy_mancuso]

Okay help me out here i tried to summarize everyones comments and copied them here. I'm i missing anything

 

 

1. Let the camera go to sleep, take a picture to wake it from sleep mode, the title bar over the review image still says 0/0.

 

2. The legend for the display time/histogram may now say "hold/Histogram" but why not "Hold/Histogram" or, if space is tight, "Hold/histogram"?

 

3. Was in the menu and it started scrolling repeatedly downwards without any input from me.

 

4 Problem with the reference pixels being corrupted by a bright light at the image border has not been fixed Green band

 

5 sadly it looks like one of thier fixes was removing the ability to see the preview in B/W

 

6 The shutter does sound different. I think I like it better--it's more "clicky" when it fires but not really louder that I can notice

 

7 I didn't notice a real improvement in AWB

 

8 Lens selection option "in menu" like the Nikon D2 lineup, would solve a lot of compatibility issues...

 

9 Would love the feature, again like the Nikon D2 series, to be able to put ina name/copyright notice straight to every images exif info from the meny

(the add comment feature...) works great and keep's scatter brains like me

from forgetting to copyright my images.

 

10 THINK the WBs are more inconsistent. «Tungsten» is still bad

 

11 I dumped my M8's yesterday and will get my money back. I got the banding on many shots without even trying, under pretty normal indoor shooting conditions. As soon as I realised this problem wasn't fixed in the new firmware and that 1.10 is over a month away I decided it really wasn't worth me waiting around

 

12 Changing "compression" in the set menu does not update the frame counter until a frame is fired or the camera is power cycled

 

13 Menu scrolling occasionally jumps two places instead of the expected one with only a "one notch" turn of the wheel

 

14 I am wondering why there is a menu option to turn off lens detection. Leaving it on with uncoded lenses makes no difference in my experience

 

15 When I finally got that stopped and set the card to format, instead of taking a few seconds as it normally does, the blinking red light and format window stayed on and on... I gave up after waiting about 10 minute

 

16 Did this change from 1.091 to 1.092

 

Old color matrix

ColorMatrix1:

0.6863 -0.1407 -0.0775

-0.3086 1.1390 0.1921

-0.0971 0.2791 0.6609

ColorMatrix2:

0.6863 -0.1407 -0.0775

-0.3086 1.1390 0.1921

-0.0971 0.2791 0.6609

 

V1.092 Color Matrix

ColorMatrix1:

1.0469 -0.5314 0.1280

-0.4326 1.2176 0.2419

-0.0886 0.2473 0.7160

ColorMatrix2:

0.7675 -0.2195 -0.0305

-0.5860 1.4118 0.1857

-0.2425 0.4007 0.6578

 

This should change the color rendering of any DNG aware Raw processor

 

17 When I 'Deleted all files' on my SD Extreme III 2Gbyte card it showed the progress bar as complete, but the camera was 'frozen' - it would not switch off or respond to any buttons. Removed Battery, replaced it and then Formatted the Card, all OK - a test pic was Ok and was deleted OK

 

18 I always like to give my Cards a (unique, personal) Volume Name. Leica suggests/demands that all cards are formatted 'in camera' - and gives the card a default Volume Name of 'NONAME', and no facility to change it.

[hammam]

This is not scientific, but I think it's worth considering. These two shots have been made under the exact same circumstances: DNG, 640 ISO, 1/90 at f:2.8, WB Auto. The lamp has a 75 w. tungsten «daylight» bulb.No manipulation whatsoever, just one-half stop more exposure on both photos in C1 LE (profile from the LUF) and convert to tiff, then reduce image size in PS and «Save for Web». Firmware 1.092.

 

First photo is with B+W 486, second one is with Heliopan Digital filter. Surprise. The Heliopan does a better job at cutting the IR. But there is definitely more magenta cast in both than with firmware 1.09, so they ARE tweaking the color curves or response or something (I'm not much of a technician at these things) in 1.092.

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[eronald]

About 6 weeks ago my dealer in London showed me the official Leica price list which included the filters. I wasn't pleased at all, they were much more expensive than the B+W 486. I wish I'd taken note but I can't remember the figures. Suffice to say I immediately ordered several B+W ones from foto-huppert.de and have just given them a further order.

 

Bob.

 

Ok, I think I am going to price my profiles in the future at exactly the price of a mid-sized Leica filter

 

If someone here can give me the name of a nice web shop that takes paypal, I'll buy a Heliopan as a tester.

 

Edmund

[mwilliamsphotography]

Bill, I shot in RAW and processed in Adobe Camera RAW where I applied noise and luminance control ( Irakly taught me that you have to view the file at 100% in ARC to judge the application accurately).

 

After opening the file in PhotoShop you can simply use the Lasso tool to select dark areas broadly and feather 30 pixels or so ... then apply noise reduction while viewing the area enlarged. Note that you can place your feathered selection on a layer.

 

OR,

 

I often just use Select > Color Range > and eye-dropper the dark shadow areas that have more noise than the mid-tones ... then use the slider to control the amount selected. (if it also selects areas you want to keep sharp, just use the Lasso while keying "option" to deselect that area, then feather.

 

Guy, I agree about the 75/1.4 ... incredibly sharp for what's in focus, with beautiful tonal transitions in the OOF areas. This lens loves light and treats it gently.

[hammam]

Okay help me out here i tried to summarize everyones comments and copied them here. I'm i missing anything...

 

Well, Guy, unless you disagree with me and there is something I don't get (which is a possibility, mind you), I still think there's something different in the way the filters cut the IR. This most recent test shows some IR in the B+W photo. And less in the Heliopan photo. Why and how they can change the IR response in firmware, if at all, is totally beyond me. I can only see what I see and let the more knowledgeable ones theorize on that.

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[jaapv]

This is not scientific, but I think it's worth considering. These two shots have been made under the exact same circumstances: DNG, 640 ISO, 1/90 at f:2.8, WB Auto. The lamp has a 75 w. tungsten «daylight» bulb.No manipulation whatsoever, just one-half stop more exposure on both photos in C1 LE (profile from the LUF) and convert to tiff, then reduce image size in PS and «Save for Web». Firmware 1.092.

 

First photo is with B+W 486, second one is with Heliopan Digital filter. Surprise. The Heliopan does a better job at cutting the IR. But there is definitely more magenta cast in both than with firmware 1.09, so they ARE tweaking the color curves or response or something (I'm not much of a technician at these things) in 1.092.

 

I find it very surprising that the first shot shows more saturation and a slightly lower exposure level than the second one, resulting in a warmer tone. I think that is of more influence on the final impression than IR rendering.