Marignac Posted May 23, 2012 Author Share #21 Â Posted May 23, 2012 Advertisement (gone after registration) Thanks for your thoughts so far. Â Interesting that no one commented on shutter behavior, so M9 does not seem to be an improvement that appears to be noteworthy. Â It all seems to come down to maybe one stop higher ISO and the true FF. Slight advantages in WW area, slight disadvantages in the tele dept. Â So the main reason for me to buy a M9 is to operate the 50Lux. I don't know if that is worth the investment, I really don't know. I'm increasingly thinking about a CV Nokton 1.2 II for both, M8 as well as M9. It is large and heavy, but as all images I see on the web, it is one really wonderful lens. Â As I don't get a gut feeling for answering the M8 or M9 question, I'm starting an increasing gut feeling checking out the Nokton 1.2. Â Probably not a bad idea to check out that lens and postpone the M8/M9 question. But what do I do with the 35 cron? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted May 23, 2012 Posted May 23, 2012 Hi Marignac, Take a look here Why choose M9 over M8?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
brianv Posted May 23, 2012 Share #22 Â Posted May 23, 2012 The M9 shutter is quiter, has 1/4000th top shutter speed. Â The M8 is noticeably louder, I use a half-case that deadens some of the noise. 1/8000th of a second shutter speed. Â Conservation of inconvenience. Â As stated- the M9 is more than one stop improved. 2500 on my M9 is close to 640 on the M8. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
radfilm Posted May 24, 2012 Share #23 Â Posted May 24, 2012 After shooting both M8 and M9 , I feel the M9 just makes a better image... I can shoot 1250 ISO and I just feel the color is better. I am very happy with switch to M9.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
StephenPatterson Posted May 24, 2012 Share #24 Â Posted May 24, 2012 Interesting that no one commented on shutter behavior, so M9 does not seem to be an improvement that appears to be noteworthy. Â It all seems to come down to maybe one stop higher ISO and the true FF. Slight advantages in WW area, slight disadvantages in the tele dept. Â Â Mine was an M8.2, so the top shutter speed of 1/4000 and also overall noise level was basically the same as the M9. Â I believe the exposure advantage is closer to half a stop rather than a full stop. Â The full frame sensor IMHO is a major advantage, both in terms of using wide angle lenses and in DOF for all lenses. Telephoto shooters use dSLRs. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted May 24, 2012 Share #25 Â Posted May 24, 2012 ...Telephoto shooters use dSLRs. Crop cameras like the M8 have an advantage there. The tiny Macro-Elmar 90 is the best and smallest 135 (more exactly 120) i've ever used thanks to my M8.2. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianv Posted May 24, 2012 Share #26 Â Posted May 24, 2012 The M9 has framelines for 135mm, and you can crop from there. The M8 framelines go up to 90mm. I've used my Nikkor 10.5cm F2.5 on both. The 90mm framelines are a perfect 100% fit for the Nikkor. The 75mm framelines are perfect for the Nikkor 8.5cm F2. I should try out the 135's on the M9. Â The night beach pictures are with the M8 at ISO 2500 (Running) and ISO 1250 (Portrait), the skating pictures are with the M9 at ISO 2500. Â http://www.seriouscompacts.com/gallery/showgallery.php?cat=647 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinnfell Posted May 24, 2012 Share #27 Â Posted May 24, 2012 Advertisement (gone after registration) I have M9, used to have M8. Â So here is my list, not in any particular order: Â - Much quieter (unless you mean M8.2) - Larger resolution AND better ISO mean much more usable indoors with a 'Cron - Lenses that do what they are designed to do. (obvious) - correction for wideangles, AND ability to manually code. (might save some money here if you got a collection of older lenses) - Feels quicker (but not sure on this one) - Easier to set WB and ISO. - Better color (if you get your profiles right) - No infrared filter B-S Â Well those are the ones I can think of that matters to me. That said, the image quality of M8 particularly in B&W is very very good, even by todays standard. I have several times considered picking up a used M8 as a spare/carryaround camera, but so far the prices are still a bit too high IMO. (M8.2 used prices are so high IMO that you might as well save up a bit more and get a used M9, especially come Photokina and rumored M10) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted May 24, 2012 Share #28 Â Posted May 24, 2012 Crop cameras like the M8 have an advantage there. The tiny Macro-Elmar 90 is the best and smallest 135 (more exactly 120) i've ever used thanks to my M8.2. What advantage? If the pixel pitch is the same (and it is on the M8 and M8) there is no resolution difference between a cropped sensor image and a full-frame image cropped down. The Macro Elmar will always be a 90 mm lens, regardless of sensor size. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted May 24, 2012 Share #29 Â Posted May 24, 2012 So you crop in your head when you compose do you? Not my cup of tea as what i like most in photo is composition. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
albygentle Posted May 24, 2012 Share #30 Â Posted May 24, 2012 What advantage? If the pixel pitch is the same (and it is on the M8 and M8) there is no resolution difference between a cropped sensor image and a full-frame image cropped down.The Macro Elmar will always be a 90 mm lens, regardless of sensor size. Â I am pretty sure this is incorrect. Â obviously you could get the same result by simply cropping the full frame image as by using the m8 sensor, but you end up with a picture composed of fewer pixels and lower quality. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted May 24, 2012 Share #31 Â Posted May 24, 2012 No -the image of the M9 cropped down to M8 size has exactly the same number of pixels as an original M8 image, as the pixel pitch is identical. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marignac Posted May 24, 2012 Author Share #32  Posted May 24, 2012 Well those are the ones I can think of that matters to me. That said, the image quality of M8 particularly in B&W is very very good, even by todays standard. I have several times considered picking up a used M8 as a spare/carryaround camera, but so far the prices are still a bit too high IMO. (M8.2 used prices are so high IMO that you might as well save up a bit more and get a used M9, especially come Photokina and rumored M10) Well then, so I'll buy a M9 in fall when prices drop and keep my M8 as affordable MM alternative  Seriously - you're right pointing at indoor photography. If it wasn't for that I would never even consider trading in my M8. And though I don't like this kind of exploding shutter, I like being able to shoot wide open with up to 1/8000. As I was lucky to get my hands on the M8 for roughly 1.200 EUR, I think in fact about keeping this gem, no matter when I find a suitable M9... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
albygentle Posted May 25, 2012 Share #33 Â Posted May 25, 2012 No -the image of the M9 cropped down to M8 size has exactly the same number of pixels as an original M8 image, as the pixel pitch is identical. Â not really, sorry. Â Furthermore the "reach" a crop sensor provides is also useful. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted May 25, 2012 Share #34 Â Posted May 25, 2012 Come on, do the maths. You are 100% wrong. The M9 sensor is the same one as the M8 one only larger.(and with a slightly thicker IR filter). Both have an 6.8 pixel pitch. Crop it down to 1.3 and you have: an M8 sensor, exactly the same number of pixels. This is not an opinion but an elementary fact. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
albygentle Posted May 25, 2012 Share #35 Â Posted May 25, 2012 You will loose pixels when you crop the FF image, Jaap. Â If you think this does not happen, fair enough. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted May 25, 2012 Share #36  Posted May 25, 2012 not really, sorry. Furthermore the "reach" a crop sensor provides is also useful.  Wrong....just as Jaap says.  If you crop the M9 to M8 proportion, you have the same framing (and perspective, of course) and same pixel density. The reasons I prefer the M8.2 (post #7) have nothing to do with your entirely incorrect assessment. Just think of the M9 as having a bigger sensor...if you chop some off, you lose that part of the picture, but what remains has the same pixel density.  Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted May 25, 2012 Share #37 Â Posted May 25, 2012 You will loose pixels when you crop the FF image, Jaap. Â If you think this does not happen, fair enough. Yes, from 18 to 10. exactly from M9 to M8. The same sensor, cropped, the same number of pixels per mm, no advantage juggling focal lengths... Your thinking only holds if you compare sensors of different size with the same number of pixels, but in that case the smaller sensor will have correspondingly smaller pixels (and thus more noise) But that is not the case for the M8 and M9 sensor. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
albygentle Posted May 25, 2012 Share #38 Â Posted May 25, 2012 I am not talking about the sensor's pixels...but the file pixels. Â Try cropping an image and compare it to an M8 file, the quality will differ, pixels will be reduced. Â At no time did my assessment have anything to do with your reasons either. It was a completely different post. Â Don't be so thick. Â You all get so threatened if someone differs with your opinion, it's hilarious. Â I will leave you to your conceited little world. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted May 25, 2012 Share #39  Posted May 25, 2012 No they will not be “reduced” whatever you mean by that. Their number will be diminished by the crop down to M8 sensor size. To exactly the number the M8 has. You are really talking nonsense. And what on earth are “ file pixels”? ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted May 25, 2012 Share #40 Â Posted May 25, 2012 Try cropping an image and compare it to an M8 file, the quality will differ, pixels will be reduced. Â The pixels will indeed be reduced...from 18MP to 10MP. You chopped off the extra pixels pertaining to the cropped off picture area. What's left is the same. I've done it, as have many others. This is common knowledge, and frankly not hard at all to grasp. Â Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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