Photokina predictions

[lars_bergquist]

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Peter Karbe does not like the 75mm Summilux, and I do not know why. An ASPH 75mm Summilux would be a tragedy, the spoiling of a fine lens.

 

How can you spoil a lens that has already been made – and is not made anymore? If you like that old beastie, keep on liking it, it's not getting worse with time, or with whatever Leica will bring out in September.

 

Which will probably not be a new 75mm Summilux. 75mm is not a too popular focal length. The M camera line seems to be on a three-year model cycle – 2006, 2009, 2012 – so there will be a new M I think but the only new M lens I can think about should be the 28mm Summicron, which may be in for an update, or at least a new mount. Unless they bring out a MATE successor, which I think would be crazy.

 

The Leica stand will be very 'flashy', because the S leaf shutter lenses will be there in force, being demonstrated. Some people talk about a S3, but that of course is not theory. It is not even a hypothesis, but simply conjecture. Hopefully nobody will go back in three months' time and check what I wrote.

 

The old man who saw it all in the Kodachrome Age

[giordano]

Which will probably not be a new 75mm Summilux. 75mm is not a too popular focal length.

 

Are there not also concerns about rangefinder precision in the case of a 75/1.4? What was acceptable with a 0.72 finder, Tri-X and a lens that's not the world's sharpest wide open could be a stop too far with a 0.68 finder, 18 or 36 MP digital sensor and APO ASPH performance wide open.

[lct]

Yes but an M10 with live view and/or EVF would solve this problem or at least help to do so.

[rosuna]

A new 75mm Summilux ASPH FLE is a possibility, but as a "reference" lens... say $8,000 or more... so it is irrelevant for most users of the M system.

 

I think there are very likely a new classical rangefinder and a new EVIL M camera.

 

The classical rangefinder is less urgent than the EVIL, but if there are technical problems with it... the classical rangefinder M10 may appear the first... I am very interested in this new classical rangefinder camera. The M9 is great but I have the M8 and I see the M9 as a step forward in the M8 development process (M8, M8.2, M9, M9-P, MM...). These cameras need not an additional step, but a substantial jump ahead...

[giordano]

I think there are very likely a new classical rangefinder...

 

That would make a nice change. The M2 range/viewfinder has had a good run but after 55 years there's lots of room for improvement. Here's my list:

 

• Longer base
  
• More rugged, won't lose vertical adjustment
  
• Electronic stage in rangefinder coupling to allow in-the-field horizintal adjustments and compensation for individual lenses
  
• Bigger VF window and eyepiece to allow 1.0x magnification for lenses 35mm and longer, 0.6x for 21-28.
  
• Eyepiece designed with long eye relief for spectacle wearers, with an adjustment for naked-eye use and the possibility of inserting a "dioptre correction" lens.
  
• LCD framelines that compensate for field of view as well as parallax changes with focus distance, using 6-bit code as well as lens mount sensor to show only one frameline whenever possible.
  

The electronic coupling would involve a digitiser (optical? magnetic?) to encode the position of the cam follower and a stepper motor to control the position of the moving prism or lens in the rangefinder. A few hundred steps between closest focus and infinity are sufficient. Basic calibration would just be a matter of going to a menu, turning the focusing ring to infinity and pressing "Set"; full custom calibration would be a little more involved. It would be easy to let users "tune" the RF to suit the way they prefer to deal with focus shift.

 

 

 

Only problem: it would cost money, and it wouldn't fit into the M9 body shell or work with goggled lenses.

[lars_bergquist]

The classical rangefinder is less urgent than the EVIL, but if there are technical problems with it... the classical rangefinder M10 may appear the first... I am very interested in this new classical rangefinder camera.

 

There are probably no technical problems, just an ongoing development process. The problem that holds back the EVIL is not technical, but not enough production capacity. Expanded production will be possible only with the move to new premises. So what we will see in September is probably a new M camera.

 

The old man from the Kodachrome Age

[dickgrafixstop]

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Let's step into fantasyland for a moment and predict -

 

1: V-Lux M - modified V-Lux 3 body with interchangeable M lens mount.

 

2. D-Lux- 18 megapixels and 8x zoom

 

3. V-Lux R - modified V-lux 3 body with native R mount

 

4. Digilux 4 - Modified panasonic GX with 14-42 varilux M4/3 mount

[IWC Doppel]

Let's step into fantasyland for a moment and predict -

 

1: V-Lux M - modified V-Lux 3 body with interchangeable M lens mount.

 

2. D-Lux- 18 megapixels and 8x zoom

 

3. V-Lux R - modified V-lux 3 body with native R mount

 

4. Digilux 4 - Modified panasonic GX with 14-42 varilux M4/3 mount

 

Leica or Panasonic ?

[rramesh]

Let's step into fantasyland for a moment and predict -

 

1: V-Lux M - modified V-Lux 3 body with interchangeable M lens mount.

 

2. D-Lux- 18 megapixels and 8x zoom

 

3. V-Lux R - modified V-lux 3 body with native R mount

 

4. Digilux 4 - Modified panasonic GX with 14-42 varilux M4/3 mount

A Deluxe M is most likely.

[pico]

[... it is about the 75mm Summicron}How can you spoil a lens that has already been made – and is not made anymore?

 

Do not be silly. Re-defining the 75mm Summilux via an APO redesign would obviate the original's merits. Some things cannot be 'improved'. I posit a subtle thing and it is your responsibility to understand.

.

[SpiritShooter]

Leica will throw a huge announcement party with greek columns in a huge stadium with hundreds of thousands of starry eyed followers all gasping with open mouths in complete awe. (Oops, sorry that has already been done).

 

BUT, they will however announce the immediate reduction in the M9 price to compete with Nikons D800, cut all lens prices by 50%, increase production by 400% and begin to manufacture Type 55 film for a new 4x5 M series.

[rosuna]

The problem that holds back the EVIL is not technical, but not enough production capacity.

 

I don't know...

 

I can think of different problems in a project like that.

 

If Leica planned a camera like the Fuji X-Pro1... they should stop and start again.

 

If they think on a 24x36 camera... there are many technical problems to be solved. There is no other product like that in the market at this moment. Even more, there are no sensors of that size supporting an EVF with full time operation. Full time contrast based AF on such a sensor is another problem. So I really don't know how that camera would be made. If they plan full compatibility with the M system there are more constraints and problems to solve, etc.

 

The production problems (two plants are being built right now, in two different countries) are another problem to deal with...

 

Well, smart reporters have many interesting questions for Stefan Daniel when the products are revealed.

[lars_bergquist]

Rosuna, the 24x36mm camera you are thinking of will be presented at the Photokina. Its name is the M10 (or at least 'M Something').

 

The old man from the Age of the M3

[toyfel]

Rosuna, the 24x36mm camera you are thinking of will be presented at the Photokina. Its name is the M10 (or at least 'M Something').

 

The old man from the Age of the M3

 

Interesting news. Where did you get that information?

[adli]

Rosuna, the 24x36mm camera you are thinking of will be presented at the Photokina. Its name is the M10 (or at least 'M Something').

 

My local dealer says he expects an S3, but no M10 at Photokina.

[Paul J]

I am inclined to agree with the school of thought that there might be no EVIL system and an M10 that does away with it and might be EVIL like. Also a traditional M like the existing M9 just upgraded. There could easily be an S3, not sure about that though personally. Maybe a 35 or 28 Cron at the level of the new 50 Cron APO and if the new M camera does have an EVF there might be a new 135mm (Cron possible?) or longer and the announcement of more longer lenses to come.

 

It makes no difference though - I don't know 'jack all'.

 

Edited to change all the 'will' to 'might'

[lars_bergquist]

I agree that a M with an optional but very good EVF would open the door to new, longer lenses, and not only recycled R optics. And a macro lens or two.

 

But the M niche is not just a technological niche, but also a pricing and target group niche. And whatever you do to a M, even if you rip out the optical combined rangefinder, it will stay within that pricing and target group niche.

 

Leica will need to sell cameras to new kinds of people. People who don't have the money for a M kit, but who also have no reason to prefer a Leica to a Panasonic. The red dot cuts no ice there. Leica can only do that by thinking out of the box. Few of us do.

 

I think that during the coming years, we may well be surprised. In the middle 1920's, nobody could imagine anything like a Leica. But Oskar Barnack and his pal Ernst Leitz II could, and did. And in the early 1950's, nobody could imagine anything like a M3 – everybody from Britain to Japan tried to make a better Leica IIIc. But the team in Wetzlar could, and did.

 

There were 35mm cameras before the Leica I. It didn't matter. There were cameras with combined rangefinders before the M3 – like the Contax II/III of 1936. It didn't matter. Because Leica did it right, and re-defined the field.

 

The old man from the M3 Age

[adli]

Not to spoil your story, but the next camera that re-defined the field after M3 was the F. Not Leica F though...

[sdai]

Not to spoil your story, but the next camera that re-defined the field after M3 was the F. Not Leica F though...

 

LoL.

 

The old man from the age of F3

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Hallo,

Look here: Interesting Leica gear

[sdai]

My local dealer says he expects an S3, but no M10 at Photokina.

 

That's what I heard from my dealer this morning too ... I asked how, because Leica already dropped half of the "predicted" lenses from their S roadmap and never mentioned about them anymore. He couldn't elaborate ...