Sell your M9 and M9-P and buy the M9M

[ALD]

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Folks

 

I strongly urge all of those fortunate and rich people to please sell their M9 models now and order the new M9M camera, for the good of the Leica brand and more importantly to do a kindness to the less fortunate than those on the forum who can afford the new M9M camera even at a stretch. It's a excellent camera.

 

There needs to be a redistribution of quality goods into the poorer people's hands so that they too can own something that lasts a long time.

 

Be kind today sell your old M9 and buy the new M9M.

 

Disclaimer: I am one of those who would like to purchase a used M9

[Michael-IIIf]

+1

[verybusypeople]

Or even your obsolete and ancient M8s

[LeicaBraz]

Rich people don't sell; they just buy and accumulate.

Regret but you have to work harder.

[masjah]

Alternatively, encourage the very rich must-have-the-latest-brigade to buy one, get bored with it ("It doesn't even do colour!") and get a plentiful second-hand market going as rapidly as possible for the fiancial mere mortals who would like one for serious b/w photography.

[ALD]

Rich people don't sell; they just buy and accumulate.

Regret but you have to work harder.

 

Are you kidding? Today we normal white collar salaried people work so hard for so many hours and still for the same salary even if doing overtime. Our commute times have also increased the only way to afford Leica gear is by taking it from the mortgage.

Working hard today is regarded as what you do to not get fired but it certainly does not get you more pay.

[Guest]

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Are you kidding? Today we normal white collar salaried people work so hard for so many hours and still for the same salary even if doing overtime. Our commute times have also increased the only way to afford Leica gear is by taking it from the mortgage.

Working hard today is regarded as what you do to not get fired but it certainly does not get you more pay.

 

When was it any different .

Brian

[rramesh]

I was thinking. How about I sell my house and buy one of each lens and camera in Leica's catalog. That way I can take the best street photographs

[wilfredo]

The Leica price tag keeps climbing higher and higher. Just when you thought it couldn't get worse, it did. Hallelujah for the 1%. The price tag makes me feel like a kid staring at a toy in a store window I could never get. What's worse, I see a rich kid throwing a tantrum getting the toy, while all I can do is watch. Kind of makes me want to dump all my Leica gear, and call it day. Clearly, I'm being pushed out of the Leica club. I am a ghetto child from the Bronx. ;-)

[roydonian]

The Leica price tag keeps climbing higher and higher.

 

When I was a snot-nosed kid, the accepted rule of thumb was that an M Leica cost as much as a family car. Is it any different today? I just took a look at the UK Volkswagen website, and the cheapest offering is just under 8,000 pounds.

 

A mid-range car is anything from 20,000 upwards. That sort of money would buy an M monochrom complete with the new APO-Summicron.

 

Not having a car may be one of the reasons why this child from the slums of a UK city was able to buy an M9-P last autumn.

 

Best regards,

 

Doug

[Fang]

+2

[wattsy]

When I was a snot-nosed kid, the accepted rule of thumb was that an M Leica cost as much as a family car. Is it any different today? I just took a look at the UK Volkswagen website, and the cheapest offering is just under 8,000 pounds.

 

A mid-range car is anything from 20,000 upwards. That sort of money would buy an M monochrom complete with the new APO-Summicron.

 

Doug, I've no idea about prices when I was a "snot-nosed kid" but when I started getting into the Leica M system, only about 10 years ago, a brand new M6TTL was around £1350 if you shopped around (I bought mine brand new from a now defunct grey-market dealer in the USA for £950). I bought my first M lens – the 50mm Summicron – new from Robert White for £600. I then quickly added a 35 Summicron ASPH, bought new for £795 and a 90 Elmarit for, I think, £750. I then later added another M6TTL body so that I could have more than one film type on the go. My total expenditure for a three lens and two body kit (remember this is barely 10 years ago) was less than the current price of the new APO Summicron.

 

Times have changed.

[bocaburger]

When I was a snot-nosed kid, the accepted rule of thumb was that an M Leica cost as much as a family car. Is it any different today?

 

In late 2002 I bought a German-made car for $48K and an MP for $2350 with a 50 Summicron for $975. Today I can buy the 2012 model of the same German-made car, comparably-equipped but completely revised and updated with the latest technology, for $51K. Today a new MP and 50 Summicron, unchanged from those I got in 2002, are $4995 and $2295 respectively. IN the off chance there any snot-nosed kids among us who have trouble with arithmetic, that's an increase of 6% on the German car but 113% on the Leica body and 135% on the lens.

[roydonian]

I’m not sure how expert my arithmetic is, but I do know that when comparing the price you pay now with the price you paid ten years ago for the same thing you need to take account of how the value of your currency has changed with respect to the Euro over those ten years, and how inflation has reduced the value of your currency over the same decade.

 

But according to my 1966 Leitz price list, an M3 with the 5cm Summicron cost GBP 223 in those days and that would be GBP 3,100 at today’s prices. In practice, you’d pay around GPB4,500 to buy today’s equivalent film camera and lens. So in real terms, prices are some 50% higher.

 

Over the same period of time, my income has probably increased by a factor of about x15 in numerical terms, but only by some 50% in real terms after inflation is factored in. So for me, a Leica MP and Summicron are as affordable (or unaffordable) now as the M3 and Summicron were in 1966.

 

I suspect that much of that increase in Leica prices came over the last decade or so as the company struggled to return to profitability while facing the R&D bill for M8/9 development..

 

I’m not competent to judge why the car industry is able to ‘buck the trend’ and maintain prices at the near-constant numerical level that you cited over the last decade. Growing use of robotics, increased use of plastics in place of metal, and the use of mass-produced electronics to replace mechanically-complex subsystems may all play a part.

 

Best regards,

 

Doug

[johnbuckley]

In late 2002 I bought a German-made car for $48K and an MP for $2350 with a 50 Summicron for $975. Today I can buy the 2012 model of the same German-made car, comparably-equipped but completely revised and updated with the latest technology, for $51K. Today a new MP and 50 Summicron, unchanged from those I got in 2002, are $4995 and $2295 respectively. IN the off chance there any snot-nosed kids among us who have trouble with arithmetic, that's an increase of 6% on the German car but 113% on the Leica body and 135% on the lens.

 

But this really is at least partly an example of supply and demand, isn't it? The supply of BMWs, Mercedes, and Audis is elastic, competition drives down the manufacturers' pricing power, but the supply -- and the demand for -- Leica cameras and lenses is way out of balance, to Leica's favor.

 

I make no excuses for Leica's prices, though it does strike me that what they are building is, objectively, closer to a handmade Aston Martin than an assembly-line manufactured Audi. But in 2006, Leica launched the M8, and along with the company's purchase by Dr. Kauffman, the company survived when some thought it might not. The M8, and definitely M9, were sufficiently interesting developments that the pool of Leica buyers, for cameras and lenses, expanded way beyond capacity. With demand exceeding supply, Leica can aim higher -- M Monochrom, APO-Summiliux 50 ASPH, M10 probably -- and with some pricing power.

 

I am happy that Leica survived. I am sad that they have priced out folks who would love their products. I would hope they would find a high-middle tier of pricing (EVIL?) to accommodate people who aren't zillionaires. And I will be honest, I am really happy, as someone who will need to sell his M9 or M8 to buy an M10, that there is a market for second-hand Leica cameras.

[cocker]

When was it any different .

Brian

 

Before 1979 :(

[Ecaton]

Folks

 

I strongly urge all of those fortunate and rich people to please sell their M9 models now and order the new M9M camera, for the good of the Leica brand and more importantly to do a kindness to the less fortunate than those on the forum who can afford the new M9M camera even at a stretch. It's a excellent camera.

 

There needs to be a redistribution of quality goods into the poorer people's hands so that they too can own something that lasts a long time.

 

Be kind today sell your old M9 and buy the new M9M.

 

Disclaimer: I am one of those who would like to purchase a used M9

 

I taught my kids when they were younger that there is not only poor and rich. They understood.

[Ecaton]

In late 2002 I bought a German-made car for $48K and an MP for $2350 with a 50 Summicron for $975. Today I can buy the 2012 model of the same German-made car, comparably-equipped but completely revised and updated with the latest technology, for $51K. Today a new MP and 50 Summicron, unchanged from those I got in 2002, are $4995 and $2295 respectively. IN the off chance there any snot-nosed kids among us who have trouble with arithmetic, that's an increase of 6% on the German car but 113% on the Leica body and 135% on the lens.

 

Your math is certainly correct. But what's the value of your 2002 German car today and for how much could you sell the Leica gear? The 2002 car probably lost -95% of its value, whereas 10 year old Leica gear would fetch +95% in the used market. That's why Leica film Ms and lenses are not expensive at the end of the day. The entrance fee to join the club is just tremendously costly.

[Messsucherkamera]

There needs to be a redistribution of quality goods into the poorer people's hands so that they too can own something that lasts a long time.

 

You must be referring to the M3...

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Hallo,

Look here: Interesting Leica gear

[MarkP]

Yes the MM is expensive! However it is much the same price as the M9P. I don't recall howls of outrage over the price of the M9P, just whether another $1000 for engraving, crystal display and Chrome finish on the M9P was worth it. The MM is more or less tha same price as an M9P.

 

We have no idea what the M10 will cost. Again it is purely speculative as to whether it will cost much more than the M9. If the M10 does take a modern/radical departure from the M9 (don't discount the possibility of an EVF or even R lens compatibility:eek:) then production costs without an optical VF may be lower and prices controlled.

 

My main point here is that ALL of the comments about price of the M10 are SPECULATIVE. Leica still need to sell enough to make it a viable replacement (or even companion) to an M9 and the bulk of Leica users who don't have bottomless wallets.

 

Maybe the M9P will continue production in parallel to the M10 if it is a radical departure from previous M cameras)...more speculation:)

But I have little doubt that the price of the M9 will start to decline and become more affordable for many over time.