lars_bergquist Posted May 8, 2012 Author Share #81 Posted May 8, 2012 Advertisement (gone after registration) The general public, having never experienced either camera or image quality, and been assiduously taught not to expect either, will buy the most convenient toy at the lowest price. Convenience means that no human being must be asked to acquire any kind of knowledge or learn any kind of skill. There is, I hear, an Amendment to the U.S. Constitution that anyone who tries to do that is un-American and will be sued to within an inch of his life – on the wrong side of it. The old man from the Age of F-stops and Shutter Speeds Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted May 8, 2012 Posted May 8, 2012 Hi lars_bergquist, Take a look here The size of the future. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
AlanG Posted May 8, 2012 Share #82 Posted May 8, 2012 The general public, having never experienced either camera or image quality, and been assiduously taught not to expect either, will buy the most convenient toy at the lowest price. Convenience means that no human being must be asked to acquire any kind of knowledge or learn any kind of skill. There is, I hear, an Amendment to the U.S. Constitution that anyone who tries to do that is un-American and will be sued to within an inch of his life – on the wrong side of it. How does this reconcile with DPReview and many other sites that review cameras and the huge number of photography classes in the US? And many people are doing fine tuning via raw conversion, using Photoshop or other photo software, and making their own color prints today. It never was simpler than using the first Brownie camera yet many Americans bought and used more complex cameras over the past century. P&s cameras and cell phone cameras have gotten to where they are very convenient for many applications whether the user cares about photographic technique or not. As for Americans only wanting it convenient, that is hard to demonstrate by all of the TV shows on cooking, crafts, gardening, and do-it-yourself home improvements. Have you ever been to a Home Depot, Michaels, or Sur la Table store? It doesn't get more American than building your own Lamborghini in your basement... http://www.kiengineering.com/The_Bull.php Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted May 8, 2012 Share #83 Posted May 8, 2012 ...if you use an APS with a Noctilux on it, you'll get an image that can't be made with an M and a 75mm 1.4... If you use an APS-C with a Noctilux 50/0.95, you'll get an image that can be made with a full frame M and a 75/1.4 as far as FoV and DoF are concerned at least. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lars_bergquist Posted May 8, 2012 Author Share #84 Posted May 8, 2012 DPReview? The only reviewer in the U.S. who's worth reading is Sean Reid. DPReview is down there with Ken Rockwell. The U.S.A. is a big country and you can find anything and everything there – for good or for bad. But it's the bad that pays. And you can recruit a million earnest participants to photo courses (whatever they teach) but they are still a drop in the sea. The old man from when a spade was a spade Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted May 8, 2012 Share #85 Posted May 8, 2012 Have you ever been to a Home Depot, Michaels, or Sur la Table store? I wouldn't even know what they sell... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico Posted May 8, 2012 Share #86 Posted May 8, 2012 How does this reconcile with DPReview and many other sites that review cameras and the huge number of photography classes in the US? It never was simpler than using the first Brownie camera. Those who read such reviews are not typical camera users. They are enthusiasts. Those who use Leica M cameras are a tiny percentage of enthusiasts. Photo students today are not the same as they once were, except perhaps at the institutions that teach to the professional field, generally outliers. So the remainder, a majority, use simple cameras with greater enthusiasm than those who used the old Brownies because it is less expensive (look to what the Brownie cost and the processing cost back then as well), and far more in demand because pictures are part of their social experience - via their phones. Today most people could give a hoot about 'good cameras', especially the Leica M. It is like driving an old VW Bug (split window or oval). One can be running an exotic engine, and they don't know, don't care until you blows the doors off some kids Asian car with coffee can muffler pipes. You might get some curious looks, and maybe once every few years someone who knows something about them, but the majority now just goes with the major consumer flow. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanG Posted May 8, 2012 Share #87 Posted May 8, 2012 Advertisement (gone after registration) Today most people could give a hoot about 'good cameras', especially the Leica M. That was always the case. Why are so many high quality cameras selling today? I was getting at that there are more photography enthusiasts today than ever and they are paying attention to various features when comparing cameras. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanG Posted May 8, 2012 Share #88 Posted May 8, 2012 I wouldn't even know what they sell... Well maybe you are not such a DIY person then. Does that say something universal about the Dutch? Americans and many other people go into Home Depot and similar stores to buy tools and materials to make all kinds of home improvement projects... tiling, electrical, plumbing, roofing, window and door installation, hardware... you name it. These stores give free classes on many of these subjects. Additionally, one can find information on-line to build or repair almost anything. With all of the on-line material, I've been doing amateur dental work on my family and friends for years. So my conclusion is that lots of Americans are making an effort to fix or build things themselves. I sure have. Sur La Table is for cooking. Michaels is for crafts. To generalize and say that Americans only want convenience is totally off base just because one thinks everyone should have a better understanding of DOF, shutter speed, etc. At one time you needed to have a better understanding of computers to use one too. So it has gotten easier to use a computer, but there are more programmers making software and hobbyists assembling their own computers than ever. The same is true about cameras and photography. Despite teh widespread "brainless" use of cameras, a lot of people are controlling more of the process from start to finish than ever before... whether that is posting pictures to web sites, making fine art prints, self-published books, what have you. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanG Posted May 8, 2012 Share #89 Posted May 8, 2012 DPReview? The only reviewer in the U.S. who's worth reading is Sean Reid. DPReview is down there with Ken Rockwell. The U.S.A. is a big country and you can find anything and everything there – for good or for bad. But it's the bad that pays. And you can recruit a million earnest participants to photo courses (whatever they teach) but they are still a drop in the sea. The old man from when a spade was a spade I really have no idea what you are getting at. Some cameras are for those who really care about the process of photography and some are not. What has changed? I think if anything, more people understand the optical process and are shooting with razor thin DOF now than ever before or Leica couldn't get $11,000+ for a Noctilux. And there wouldn't be so many other companies making fast lenses too. I think it is probably the deep pocket enthusiast market that is keeping Leica and MF gear alive. Many of these enthusiasts are American. What is worth reading to you is not a universally held view. But I can add LL, Steve's Digicams, Ron Galbraith, Fred Miranda, Rangefinder Forum, Large Format Photography Forum, Paul C. Buff Technical Forums, Photodo, Nature and Wildlife Forums, The Digital Journalist, many more plus numerous private professional photography sites few are aware of. And all kinds of manufacturers forums for software and hardware and techniques. There are people reading and posting to these sites. Magazines - Art Forum http://www.artforum.com Amateur Photographer Amateur Photographer - news, camera reviews, lens reviews, camera equipment guides, photography courses, competitions, photography forums | Amateur Photographer American Photo americanphoto.com - photos Aperture Aperture Foundation | Home page Black & White B&W Magazine Better Digital Photography http://www.betterdigitalphotography.co.uk British Journal of Photography British Journal of Photography Camera Arts cameraarts.com Canadian Photo Guide (Under Construction) ARTPOST INDEX Classic Camera N/A Computer Arts Computer Arts magazine | Inspiration, Technique, Great Design Digital Camera World Digital Camera News, Reviews, Tips and Techniques | Digital Camera World Digital Photography Techniques (contact only) letters.dpt@futurnet.co.uk Digital Photo Pro The Guide To Advanced Photography Technology And Creativity | DigitalPhotoPro.com Digital Photo Pro Advertiser Information Advertiser Index | DigitalPhotoPro.com Digital Photographer Paragon Double Take DoubleTake Magazine eDigital Photo Shutterbug Home | Shutterbug European Photography N/A Foto 8 FOTO8, the home of photojournalism Focus on Imaging (Formerly Photo Lab Managment) http://www.focusonimagingmag.com/index2.tml Image N/A Leica Photographie http://www.falsten.com/leicafot Leica World http://www.leica-camera.com/kultur/leicaworld_e.html Leica World http://www.falsten.com/leicaw Lens Work LensWork Celebrates 100 Issues in Print! Outdoor Photographer Photography Equipment - Photography Tips - Photography Technique | OutdoorPhotographer.com Petersen's Photographic Photographic: Home Page Photo District News (PDN) Photo Magazine | Professional Photography Industry News and Resources Photographers Forum Serbin Communications | Phn # 800-876-6425 Photo Insider Unique Photo Blog, News and Reviews Photographers International N/A Photo Traveler Domains for sale! - GoldNames.com Practical Photography http://www.ephotozine.com/pp/ Photo Techniques USA photo technique magazine: Variations on the Photographic Arts Photon N/A Picture http://www.picturmagazine.com Popular Photography & Imaging Popular Photography Magazine | Digital Camera Reviews, Photography Tips, Buying Guide Professional Photographer and Digital Pro N/A Range Finder Photography News | Imaging and Photography Magazine - Rangefinder Reportage-The International Magazine of Journalism // R e p o r t a g e // Shutterbug Shutterbug Home | Shutterbug View Camera View Camera:: the Journal of Large-Format Photography Vivid Light (Online Photo Magazine) Vivid Light Photography What Digital Camera (contact only) wdc@ipcmedia.com Zone Zero N/A Zoom N/A Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted May 8, 2012 Share #90 Posted May 8, 2012 Sheesh- that is a labour of love... Do you mind if I put these links in the FAQ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanG Posted May 8, 2012 Share #91 Posted May 8, 2012 Sheesh- that is a labour of love... Do you mind if I put these links in the FAQ? I just copied them from a quick search so of course you can put them in. A few are dead ends though. I think there are many other sites. That link was from this post on the Viewfinder Photography Forum from 2004 - List Of Photography Websites - Digital Camera Forum All I was getting at is there seem to be more "serious" photographers than ever and I think the existence of all of these sites confirms that. There are various sites that just make links, roundups and updates from various photo sites. If you post a YouTube video on some aspect of photography technique or instruction, you might be surprised at how many places you never heard of automatically link to it. Here is another list of magazines: photolinks.ch - Online Photography Magazines and Magazine Websites - Online Fotografie Magazine und Magazin-Webseiten And there are many other types of photo links on that site. Additionally there are countless web sites and blogs from various pro and enthusiast photographers. There must be a lot of interest out there. I forgot to mention the local FotoDC site.. (They put on quite a remarkable event each year plus have continuing programs.) There are some great photos here. Please take the time to view them. The James Morgan photo of a boy swimming with his pet shark gets me every time I look at it and I wouldn't care what kind of camera he used. http://www.fotoweekdc.org/ http://jamesmorganphotography.co.uk/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
haroldp Posted May 8, 2012 Share #92 Posted May 8, 2012 The general public, having never experienced either camera or image quality, and been assiduously taught not to expect either, will buy the most convenient toy at the lowest price. Convenience means that no human being must be asked to acquire any kind of knowledge or learn any kind of skill. There is, I hear, an Amendment to the U.S. Constitution that anyone who tries to do that is un-American and will be sued to within an inch of his life – on the wrong side of it. The old man from the Age of F-stops and Shutter Speeds You must have lived in the US for a long time to know this. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted May 9, 2012 Share #93 Posted May 9, 2012 It’ll have to wait till after the weekend I just copied them from a quick search so of course you can put them in. A few are dead ends though. I think there are many other sites. That link was from this post on the Viewfinder Photography Forum from 2004 - List Of Photography Websites - Digital Camera Forum All I was getting at is there seem to be more "serious" photographers than ever and I think the existence of all of these sites confirms that. There are various sites that just make links, roundups and updates from various photo sites. If you post a YouTube video on some aspect of photography technique or instruction, you might be surprised at how many places you never heard of automatically link to it. Here is another list of magazines: photolinks.ch - Online Photography Magazines and Magazine Websites - Online Fotografie Magazine und Magazin-Webseiten And there are many other types of photo links on that site. Additionally there are countless web sites and blogs from various pro and enthusiast photographers. There must be a lot of interest out there. I forgot to mention the local FotoDC site.. (They put on quite a remarkable event each year plus have continuing programs.) There are some great photos here. Please take the time to view them. The James Morgan photo of a boy swimming with his pet shark gets me every time I look at it and I wouldn't care what kind of camera he used. FotoDC James Morgan Photography Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CalArts 99 Posted May 9, 2012 Share #94 Posted May 9, 2012 One can be 'serious' about the camera gear and the technique but that doesn't mean they're going to be creative with it. And that's what really takes a lot of patience and effort. Sorry, but the technical stuff is actually the easy part. There's often better stuff coming out of some iPhones these days than from many of the 'serious photographers' using a Noctilux. Seriously. And one might be surprised about the lack of camera/tech knowledge of some of the world's greatest image makers. It's not all about how you get there, but what you got. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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