Guest guy_mancuso Posted March 4, 2007 Share #21 Posted March 4, 2007 Advertisement (gone after registration) Thanks Frank for the report. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted March 4, 2007 Posted March 4, 2007 Hi Guest guy_mancuso, Take a look here Need help --- no M8 info on screen. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
wparsonsgisnet Posted March 4, 2007 Share #22 Posted March 4, 2007 Frank, you may not have a problem. I take it you are using the new 1.091. One feature of this version is that AFTER turning on the M8, you jmust touch the shutter to turn the camera ON. All buttons will now work. Try that. Also, take 1.09 with you so you can go back if you need to. Regards, Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chetccox Posted March 4, 2007 Share #23 Posted March 4, 2007 Bill That may be an anomaly on your particular camera, but I am using 1.091(maybe 1.91) and that is simply not the case. My camera works exactly as it did before, with no change in the shutter volume that I am aware of. I do not have to push the shutter button to make my buttons work. And yes, I am sure that I have 1.91(1.091) installed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrc Posted March 4, 2007 Share #24 Posted March 4, 2007 My M8 just went down with the same symptoms as Frank's, can get nothing but the bottom-cover warning, etc. With a fresh battery it will blink red when I press the shutter button, and when I load a battery. That's it. I'm going to take the battery out for 24 hours; I'm debating whether to try 1.091, but since it didn't work with Frank's, I doubt that it'll work with mine. I don't really understand how it could be mechanical -- I took a few shots with it a couple of days ago, and it worked fine (although I did have one earlier, transitory failure.) Then, I pick it up and turn it on...and nothing. How do you get a mechanical failure when it's not being used? I suspect firmware; I think they need a reset button, or a reset prodecure, or something. Not to get too pissy about this, or anything, but when the M8 went down, I changed the lens over to an RD-1 which I don't think I've turned on since Christmas, and it worked like a champ. JC Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
billh Posted March 4, 2007 Share #25 Posted March 4, 2007 Not to get too pissy about this, or anything, but when the M8 went down, I changed the lens over to an RD-1 which I don't think I've turned on since Christmas, and it worked like a champ. JC John, I don't think at this point you can be "too pissy". It is difficult to imagine that by now Leica does not know what is failing. Imagine being in Frank’s position, or on a job with this thing. Of course then there is the issue of the back focusing....... You really have to lust for one of these things to expose yourself to this risk. Imagine if this were a car. Who would buy it? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie Roberts Posted March 4, 2007 Share #26 Posted March 4, 2007 {snipped} Of course then there is the issue of the back focusing....... You really have to lust for one of these things to expose yourself to this risk. Imagine if this were a car. Who would buy it? I agree--this is getting a little too likely for my tastes, though, again, you're not going to read about "working well" in a forum like this. But something does seems to be up, here, and yes--a camera reset or 'graceful degradation' when an error condition happens would be good. But what backfocus issue, Bill? I don't have a backfocus issue, and others I know don't either. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertwright Posted March 4, 2007 Share #27 Posted March 4, 2007 Advertisement (gone after registration) I guess everyone could be right-if it is the switch, that switch is a soft switch, it does not immediately turn on or turn off the camera, it only tells something else to do that. So while the "hardware" of that piece may be functioning properly, the hardware of the electric part may be faulty, or whatever software it controls is buggy. I suppose we will never know, as I doubt Leica will divulge what essentially is wrong. I understand the reasons why a company would not wish to divulge exactly what is going on, after all it is their problem, to us the camera is simply not working. It is up to them to fix it. However, it does speak to how we all will come to view the camera, in otherwords, trustworthy or not. And once you think of it as untrustworthy, all sorts of other hinky behaviour can "seem" to appear and be ascribed to that. It is a slippery slope. A simple statement like, a problem exists with the shutter release or there was a bug in the firmware that caused..or a manufacturing process./assembly process was causing such and such....could alieviate by isolating the damage to a known quantity. I really would like to hear an explanation for all these similar failures, even if they are small in number. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie Roberts Posted March 4, 2007 Share #28 Posted March 4, 2007 Well said, Robert! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
billh Posted March 4, 2007 Share #29 Posted March 4, 2007 But what backfocus issue, Bill? I don't have a backfocus issue, and others I know don't either. Jamie, That is a bit like asking, “what failures? Mine is working fine”. My first M8 back focused - and failed. My second M8 is still working, but it backfocuses, http://homepage.mac.com/billh96007/Focus-test/PhotoAlbum205.html A friend’s first and second M8s back focused (both also failed), there has been a parade of complaints about this on the list, and incredibly someone at Leica purportedly told an owner the reason his 35mm f1.4 back focused was because of lens aberrations - that comment would have made me (as our UK friends say) go spare. That so many people bought into it amazes me. Bill Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DerrickC Posted March 5, 2007 Share #30 Posted March 5, 2007 I had something similar happen to my M8 (fw ver 1.09). Was going to clean the sensor, selected the option to clean, selected yes, and then the message to press the shutter button came on as normal but when i pressed the shutter nothing happened. In the end i turned the camera off and on again and then the frame counter always appeared regardless of whether the camera was on or off. Nothing in the viewfinder, shutter did not work and lcd screen was blank and the buttons did not work. Only whenever the bottom cover was open was there a message on the screen saying that it was open. Worked fine after i took out the battery and put it back in. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
barjohn Posted March 5, 2007 Share #31 Posted March 5, 2007 This is a known bug that you simply fix by removing and resinserting the battery. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertwright Posted March 5, 2007 Share #32 Posted March 5, 2007 looking at your mac page, I'd say with the exception of the 50 lux, all of them focus fine. Look at the Noct, that is very difficult to focus and by the jpegs you have posted, you have it nailed to within whatever acceptable amount is possible given that lens. In real life, I would doubt that with a live subject you could always do even that good at that distance. I'm not seeing it. Jamie, That is a bit like asking, “what failures? Mine is working fine”. My first M8 back focused - and failed. My second M8 is still working, but it backfocuses, http://homepage.mac.com/billh96007/Focus-test/PhotoAlbum205.html A friend’s first and second M8s back focused (both also failed), there has been a parade of complaints about this on the list, and incredibly someone at Leica purportedly told an owner the reason his 35mm f1.4 back focused was because of lens aberrations - that comment would have made me (as our UK friends say) go spare. That so many people bought into it amazes me. Bill Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
billh Posted March 5, 2007 Share #33 Posted March 5, 2007 looking at your mac page, I'd say with the exception of the 50 lux, all of them focus fine. Look at the Noct, that is very difficult to focus and by the jpegs you have posted, you have it nailed to within whatever acceptable amount is possible given that lens. In real life, I would doubt that with a live subject you could always do even that good at that distance. I'm not seeing it. The amount of focus shift (rearwards in my case, and in most others I have seen reported) varies with the lens. This is very noticeable when you focus on eyes, and an ear is in focus, not the eyes. When this happens repeatedly, it soon grabs your attention. I have repeated this test with different subjects many times. I cannot understand why you do not see the out of focus issue on these jpegs. Perhaps they are too small or your monitor is not up to par. Perhaps you will see the shift here: If not, fine, but I cannot use a photograph that is not in focus, and that is generally the case with other photographers. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guy_mancuso Posted March 5, 2007 Share #34 Posted March 5, 2007 Bill there is a adjustment that you can do with the focus cam, just need a 2mm allen wrench and just a slight turn should do it. There is a thread on this which explains in detail how to make this adjustment. I have done it on both camera's and now all my lenses are dead on. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertwright Posted March 5, 2007 Share #35 Posted March 5, 2007 I agree about the 50 lux, it is def. focusing back, but for the 35 lux,the 28 cron, a couple of millimeters is not going to matter, (and I can barely see it imo) and for the noct and 75, they will show focus errors that (i believe anyway) are user generated. In other words, focus 5 times and you get 5 different results. At least this is my experience in doing focus tests. this example is better. ...on the plus side, your out of focus rendering on the asph. lux beats the crap outa my non-asph version at 1.4... those infinity tests are also revealing. It would be nice if Guy's fix could solve this. good luck.. The amount of focus shift (rearwards in my case, and in most others I have seen reported) varies with the lens. This is very noticeable when you focus on eyes, and an ear is in focus, not the eyes. When this happens repeatedly, it soon grabs your attention. I have repeated this test with different subjects many times. I cannot understand why you do not see the out of focus issue on these jpegs. Perhaps they are too small or your monitor is not up to par. Perhaps you will see the shift here: If not, fine, but I cannot use a photograph that is not in focus, and that is generally the case with other photographers. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fotografr Posted March 5, 2007 Share #36 Posted March 5, 2007 This is a known bug that you simply fix by removing and resinserting the battery. Perhaps that works for some people. It did not work for me. My first M8 had a total electronic failure after one day. The replacement worked for one week, then experienced the same kind of failure described in this thread. I could get the camera to record images by removing the battery while the camera was in the "On" position, but could not get any of the back buttons to bring up anything on the display. I tried leaving a battery out of the camera for as long as 24 hours, but still had the same problem when I put a fresh battery back in. The camera is currently back in Solms for another replacement. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
billh Posted March 5, 2007 Share #37 Posted March 5, 2007 Hi Guy and Robert, When I ran these “tests” I focused and refocused several times with each lens, with and without the 1.25x magnifier, and the errors were consistent. Now, what is not consistent is the difference in the focusing error between the various lenses. Some are really out (the 50ASPH for example), while others seem OK - especially the APO75, and interestingly - if memory serves me correctly - the 75 Summilux. I wonder why two different 75mm lenses would be in focus, but not other lenses? I did see the thread of adjusting the focus and have it in PDF form, but I am afraid if i adjust the camera to focus correctly with the 50ASPH, the APO 75 will not work....I can’t see any way to adjust anything on the rear of the lens to achieve any kind of adjustment there. Any thoughts? When I try the adjustment with the 2 mm Allen wrench just inside the lens opening, my goal is to adjust the camera so the lens focuses correctly at infinity, and then (hopefully) the close focus will be correct too? Here are the results of one of the tests, M8 focus test, cans of wax. Cans, from left top right: Center is the can I focused on, From left to right, far left can is 1.5” to the rear of center can, next can is back 1”, center can, can on right of center can is back 1/2” from center can, far right can is back 3/4” from center can. Focused with 1.25x magnifier 1) APO135 @f3.4 Plane of focus is 1.5 inches to rear 2) APO135 @f5.6 Plane of focus is 1.5 inches to rear 3) APO90 @f2.0 Plane of focus is 1.5 inches to rear 4) APO90 @f2.8 Plane of focus is 1.5 inches to rear 5) APO90 @f4.0 Plane of focus is 1.5 inches to rear 6) APO90 @f5.6 Plane of focus is 1.5 inches to rear 7) APO75 @f2.0 Focus is correct 8) APO75 @f2.8 Focus is correct 9) APO75 @f4.0 Focus is correct 10) APO 75@f5.6 Focus is correct Focused without 1.25x magnifier 11) APO75 @f2.0 Focus is correct 12) APO75 @f2.8 Focus is correct 13) APO75 @f4.0 Focus is correct 14) APO 75@f5.6 Focus is correct Focused with 1.25x magnifier 15) APO50 @f1.4 Plane of focus more than 1.5 inches to rear 16) APO50 @f2.0 Plane of focus more than 1.5 inches to rear 17) APO50 @f2.8 Plane of focus more than 1.5 inches to rear 18) APO50 @f4.0 Plane of focus more than 1.5 inches to rear 19) APO50 @f5.6 Plane of focus more than 1.5 inches to rear Focused without 1.25x magnifier 20) APO50 @f1.4 Plane of focus more than 1.5 inches to rear 21) APO50 @f2.0 Plane of focus more than 1.5 inches to rear 22) APO50 @f2.8 Plane of focus more than 1.5 inches to rear 23) APO50 @f4.0 Plane of focus more than 1.5 inches to rear 24) APO50 @f5.6 Plane of focus is 1.5 inches to rear Infinity focus test 29) APO 135@f3.4, lens on infinity - good focus 30) APO135@f3.4 , rangefinder focused on infinity (difference) -way out of focus, unrecognizable 31) APO90 @f2.0, lens set on infinity - good focus 32) APO90 @f2.0, rangerfinder focused on infinity (difference)- out of focus 33) APO75 @f2.0, lens set on infinity - good focus 34) APO75 @f2.0, rangerfinder focused on infinity (difference) - out of focus 35) 50ASPH @f1.4, lens set on infinity - looks OK 36) 50ASPH @f1.4, rangerfinder focused on infinity - it is hard to see the difference at infinity, but the items closer in are much sharper here, indicating it was not focused at infinity. 37) Noctilux @f1.4, lens set on infinity - look OK 36) Noctilux @f1.4, rangerfinder focused on infinity - the items closer in are sharper here, indicating it was not focused at infinity. Thanks, Bill Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guy_mancuso Posted March 5, 2007 Share #38 Posted March 5, 2007 Bill I adjusted mine to about 10 ft than my infinity wound up perfect. This takes some time to dobut was worth it in the end and yes i had one lens that was different than the rest and magically after i made the adjustments it worked out fine. Seems strange but my 50,75 and 90 are deadly along with my 35 lux. Now my reasoning for trying it at 10 ft was this , most of my portraits or shots that I will shoot wide open will be in this range, At infinity i can barely see a reason to shot wide open very often if ever. So i went for the portrait length becuase infinity i will stop down most likely anyway so if it is off a touch it may not matter. Also i don't every think you will get dead perfect with RF on all lenses at all wide open at all distances. i just think there is variance in this since most of this is done by hand. So having adjustments made is not that rare thing but pretty normal . What i found interesting is after i was done both bodies are identical the way I did it. Now hell i don't know if this is the way leica does it but i fine tuned it for the area where my need is and it is killer BTW. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie Roberts Posted March 5, 2007 Share #39 Posted March 5, 2007 Bill--this is why I asked about the back focus issue. My experience is the same as Guy's--after I adjusted the focus, all my lenses focussed properly. I don't have a 75 (yet) but will soon; I'll check then. But FWIW I agree with you--it's appalling that people think a 35 1.4 Lux won't focus on what you focus on Mine does, wide open, and stopped down. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
billh Posted March 5, 2007 Share #40 Posted March 5, 2007 Thanks Guy and Jamie. I’ll mess with it, and who knows, perhaps I will open up a focus-fixer shop! Seriously, when I set the longer lenses at the infinity mark, the infinity focus is fine - but when I focus on something at infinity with the rangefinder, the entire image is badly out of focus. So I think as an experiment I will try to adjust the camera for correct focus at infinity with perhaps the APO135, and see what effect that has, and then if it does not fix the problem, I’ll try Guy’s method since I am also primarily concerned with the closer distances. I usually use wide apertures because I am inside and I am trying to use as low an ISO as possible to minimize noise, but when the focus is off it really does not matter whether you are using f1.4 or f5.6. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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