Messsucherkamera Posted March 31, 2012 Share #1 Posted March 31, 2012 Advertisement (gone after registration) A couple of days ago, I dropped my Billingham Pro Hadley which contained my M4-P with my 28 Summicron mounted. I was hurrying to the car, had several things in my hands and a portfolio stuck under my right arm with the Billingham's strap over my left shoulder, not diagonally across my chest, as I carry it 99% of the time (it's that other 1% that will break your stones). Since Mr. Murphy never sleeps, the strap slipped off my left shoulder and the bag fell two feet, landing on the hardpacked gravel parking lot. I wasn't too concerned as the fall was not that far and the Hadley Pro is well padded. The next day when I took out the M4-P, I discovered that the rewind crank was deformed from the impact as the camera was sitting in the bag left side down. It will not move and the lever of the crank is bound up due to the deformation. After checking the rangefinder, I discovered that it was also knocked out of alignment. The only good news out of this debacle is that the 28 'cron seems to be functioning normally (focus is as smooth as before the drop, aperture ring works normally) and shows no visible signs of damage. I gave Sherry Krauter a call and she tells me that the rewind lever replacement will run around $100US plus bench time, perhaps another $50-75US I'm guessing. The time required to recalibrate the rangefinder will likely double the cost of getting the M4-P repaired and returned to factory spec. Then there's shipping and insurance costs, too - and I will be without my M4-P for a few weeks. The lessons learned from this costly accident are: 1 - ALWAYS wear your camera bag strap diagonally across your chest (strap on left shoulder, bag at right side). This will make having the strap slip off your shoulder impossible. 2 - ALWAYS make certain your camera is positioned in the camera bag so it is oriented in an upright position resting on the baseplate. If my camera had been sitting in the bag in this position, I'm convinced that the rewind crank would have not been destroyed (whether or not the rangefinder would have been knocked out of alignment is another matter). If anyone else has any experiences to pass along to the rest of us on hard learned lessons such as mine, please speak up. If we can learn from the mishaps of others that's a good thing because damaging your Leica M truly sucks out loud! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted March 31, 2012 Posted March 31, 2012 Hi Messsucherkamera, Take a look here Postmortem lessons from a broken M4-P. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
darylgo Posted March 31, 2012 Share #2 Posted March 31, 2012 Sorry to hear your camera requires repair and lost time. One of my lenses suffers from poor image quality and the focus ring was skewed, impact damage no doubt but I can't figure where or when this occurred. Let us know how your repair turns out. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gyoung Posted March 31, 2012 Share #3 Posted March 31, 2012 Similar thing happened to my M6ttl, cost about 70 pounds for Malcolm Taylor to straighten the rewind shaft, adjust rangefinder and check lens (50 Summilux) Gerry Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
xalo Posted March 31, 2012 Share #4 Posted March 31, 2012 It's a bit creepy to hear that this seemingly benign fall had such an impact... sorry for you. Some years ago, hurrying to pack for a trip to Japan, my M2 in its halfcase slipped off my shoulder and fell pretty hard on the wooden floor (glued to concrete). I did a hasty (read incomplete) functional test and checked for impacts on the body and lens (35/1,4 pre-asph), then thought I'd gotten away with cold sweat. When I wanted to use the M2 first time in the airport, the rangefinder was totally off, unusable. So I ended up zone 'focussing' for a week, while ruminating on my lack of attention and fearing for the fate of the M2, 35 and my wallet... Worse, I used the camera less then I had wanted to. Back in Paris, a local atelier only adjusted the rangefinder. It was about 90 EUR which I paid in addition to the frustration in Japan. Much later, when I put up the M2 for sale in a shop, the salesman hinted at a very slight deformation of the top plate that I had never noticed, but possibly came from this fall. He 'adjusted' the price accordingly... Perhaps in an active use of cameras, such accidents are hardly avoidable - at least for me. Recently I broke the plastic hood of my 35/1,4 asph - no other damage, luckily, once an atelier checked the lens (for free). Take care, Alexander P.S.: Your post refers to lessons: In my case, maintaining a link with a good workshop/dealer that can check, repair and carries basic spares - and ideally setting aside a small budget for the unforeseen... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Allsopp Posted March 31, 2012 Share #5 Posted March 31, 2012 Bad luck Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Messsucherkamera Posted March 31, 2012 Author Share #6 Posted March 31, 2012 You are correct Alexander. It seems like a lot of carnage for such a short drop - and in in a Billingham bag, too. In another incident years ago my 50 summilux hit a hard tile floor (laid on a concrete slab) from a height of nearly three feet - bare naked, no bag or lens pouch. The result? No damage, not even a scratch in the black laqueor. Sometimes there's just no accounting for these cameras and lenses that wear the red dot. I'm in full agreement that being on friendly terms with a seasoned Leica M repair professional is a good thing. These things happen if you actually use your cameras. In my case, I didn't buy them to look at. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
barrybed Posted March 31, 2012 Share #7 Posted March 31, 2012 Advertisement (gone after registration) I once dropped an M4 and the crank would not turn. It turns out it was only the crank itself that was bent, not the shaft. Those cranks are not the most rugged of things on an M. I ordered a new crank directly from Leica which in those days (1970s) was $18 and I thought it was a fortune! There is a set screw in the crank and you can remove it easily. I put the new crank on and it was as good as new. DAG (Don Goldberg) sells camera parts and might have a crank in stock. I would call him. The rangefinder on yours is another story, but it all might not be as bad as you think. Just a thought...Robbie http://robbiebedell.photoshelter.com Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jneilt Posted April 1, 2012 Share #8 Posted April 1, 2012 There is another lesson here: You have a 30 year old camera that is easily repaired today and will work as good as new when it's back in your hands. If it were plastic, the response would be "go buy a new one". Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanG Posted April 1, 2012 Share #9 Posted April 1, 2012 There is another lesson here: You have a 30 year old camera that is easily repaired today and will work as good as new when it's back in your hands. If it were plastic, the response would be "go buy a new one". Maybe yes and maybe no. Last week I dropped a 16-35 f2.8 lens about 3 feet onto a ceramic tile floor. No dents, no scratches, nothing knocked out of alignment. I don't know what it is made out of but it is very resilient material. And my niece is using a "plastic" film SLR and zoom lens that she just bought used for $70. So you are right it won't be worth repairing it if she breaks it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
menos I M6 Posted April 1, 2012 Share #10 Posted April 1, 2012 Most of the time, I wear a messenger bag, when shooting, just hanging on a shoulder (not cross wearing). When the climate is appropriate, my preferred shooting jacket is a black M40 military jacket with shoulder pads, that prevent any camera bag or camera from slipping off a shoulder. During warmer periods, I indeed prefer cross wearing the bag, when possible. I never lost a bag on the floor though, with or without M40. Most important is, that the bag is indeed closed securely, as if it should be open, I might try to dampen the shock with catching the bag with my foot - potentially resulting in emptying an open bag on the floor. A properly closed bag will just tumble around with the gear a bit shaken, but not crashed. I have seen quite a few accidents, where an open messenger bag resulted in being emptied, just by the wearer bending over for an open shoe lace, lost key or alike - shuddering by the thought, it might be a M9 with Noctilux or worse with an irreplaceable vintage lens - ALWAYS CLOSE YOUR BAGS PROPERLY! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
250swb Posted April 1, 2012 Share #11 Posted April 1, 2012 If it is the rewind shaft that is bent then yes it needs to go to a repairer for that. But if it is only the rewind crank (they are easily bent), the round alloy head with the crank lever folds into, then it is a really easy repair you can do yourself. So if you can find a rewind crank on Ebay for less than $100 it could save you some money. Steve Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bocaburger Posted April 1, 2012 Share #12 Posted April 1, 2012 I'd say be glad you didn't have a Domke or an M-Classics or some other sparsely-padded bag. That said, while the Billinghams are exquisite, they are not the best-padded bags around. I've had a LowePro bag dropped from car-roof height to solid concrete with no effect on the contents whatsoever. The price one pays is bulk, and of course lack of conformity with internet-inspired Leica fashionability. What I have done with my Billinghams is place a piece of dense foam (cut from a camping sleep mat) in the bottoms. Given the physics, that's most likely where a drop impact will take place, and drop impacts tend to be the most forceful. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
enboe Posted April 1, 2012 Share #13 Posted April 1, 2012 Yup, we all do clumsy things now and then. I was using a public restroom and had removed my coat and M8 and placed them on the hook. When I grabbed the coat to put on first, the camera fell four or five feet onto a tile floor. Six weeks and $750 later I have a new rangefinder and top plate, returning the M8 to new condition. Just part of the hobby. (Oh, and I also mis-grabbed an early M3 with a Canon 50/1.2 from around my neck and had it fall onto concrete. The lens filter made first contact - totally shattered, and the lens wound up with some pits from the filter glass in the front element. The M3 was undisturbed, and the lens was gifted to a new Leica shooter who still uses it to this day. Sometimes you can make lemonade.) Now, do you mind if I hold that $25,000 vintage MP one more time? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tobey bilek Posted April 1, 2012 Share #14 Posted April 1, 2012 Hadley pro hit my garage floor the very same way. Crushed the front of my Nikon 28 and the camera behind it was ok. $150 repair. I got a Lowe Pro magnum that offers real protection against idiots. Hadley was retired. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Messsucherkamera Posted April 3, 2012 Author Share #15 Posted April 3, 2012 I'd say be glad you didn't have a Domke or an M-Classics or some other sparsely-padded bag. That said, while the Billinghams are exquisite, they are not the best-padded bags around. I've had a LowePro bag dropped from car-roof height to solid concrete with no effect on the contents whatsoever. The price one pays is bulk, and of course lack of conformity with internet-inspired Leica fashionability. What I have done with my Billinghams is place a piece of dense foam (cut from a camping sleep mat) in the bottoms. Given the physics, that's most likely where a drop impact will take place, and drop impacts tend to be the most forceful. The larger Billingham bags (335 & 550) have a one inch (2.54 cm.) thick high density foam bottom of the bag insert with a reinforcing stiffner (at least my older versions do) but the Hadley Pro does not. I am at a loss to understand this omission in the H/P. Does Billingham expect us to drop our 335 and 550 bags, but not our Hadley Pros?? I picked up a closed cell high density foam pad that is 7/16" (1.11 cm.) thick and cut out inserts to go in the bottom of my Hadley Pro. This may not be as effective as the insert that Billingham puts in their larger bags, but it is definitely a step in the right direction. If I put in two layers of this foam, it would be at least the equal of the thick pad in the 335 and 550. I don't think that will be necessary as I will never again carry one of my shoulder mounted camera bags without the strap running diagonally across my chest, making a slip off the shoulder drop impossible. Regarding Domkes - I once took a bad fall while carrying my MP with 28 'cron mounted in a Domke F4AF bag. I fell in such a way that the bag & camera flew easily four feet ahead of me at about waist height and slammed down on the concrete sidewalk, tumbling another four or five feet after landing. In spite of being pretty beat up and bloody, my first thought was to wonder how many hundreds of dollars in repairs the MP and 'cron would each require. After attending to an elbow that looked like chopped steak, collecting myself and getting to my feet, I picked up the Domke and inspected my gear. There was no damage - not even a scratch to be found anywhere. My light meter was also 100% undamaged. I was incredulous at what seemed like a borderline miracle. I guess it's all in how the bag & camera hit when they are dropped or launched into the air. Or maybe it's just a crap shoot. I shudder to think of the train wreck that camera and lens would have been if the bag had not been properly buttoned up. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Joachim_I Posted April 3, 2012 Share #16 Posted April 3, 2012 I am sorry to hear about your bad luck. Two remarks: always order the Hadley with its Billingham shoulder pad (new type). The pad does a very good job in preventing slipping. In defence of Billingham, my Linhof Technika once fall to the ground from an airplane overhead locker. It was packed in a Billingham VG380 bag. Nothing happened to the camera and its lens. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Messsucherkamera Posted April 3, 2012 Author Share #17 Posted April 3, 2012 I do need to get a shoulder pad upgrade for the Hadley Pro and 335. I have been scavenging the 335 shoulder pad for use on the Hadley and it is showing its age. I don't consider myself to be plagued by bad luck, really. Three serious mishaps in eighteen years of dedicated photography is about par for the course, I'd think. I think photography is like driving - if you do it long enough you're going to have a fender bender now and then, regardless of how careful you are. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manolo Laguillo Posted April 3, 2012 Share #18 Posted April 3, 2012 The stories that are being told in this thread are illustrative of yet another point: if the problem is the distance between the camera and the ground, erase that distance, and the camera won't fall because it is already there, on the ground. I am thinking of the possibility of the bag falling from the seat when travelling by car and a sudden halt has to be made. I try to put the bag right on the car's floor, there where it would land in case of a sharp breaking. Last summer, while travelling by car in Italy, we had a bad crash on the 'Autostrada' near Rome after succesfully not impacting against two bicycles that were lying on the left lane 100 m in front of us, and while driving at 120 km/h. We were very lucky, even the car (a Toyota Land Cruiser) had only exterior damage, the engine and everything else was ok, and we could drive back to Spain in due time. My photo equipment (M9 plus 5 lenses) was in a Hadley Pro, that landed on the floor. Everything was ok, except the Leica hand grip, that was slightly bent on the place where the cylinder and the base plate meet. I put the camera on the bag always in such a way that it rests vertically on the short side near the viewfinder, so that I can grab it by the grip. The bag was upside down on the floor, so it seems that even in spite of the padding the Hadley Pro has on top of the insert, the impact was big enough to bend the handgrip. I could mend it easily, and while doing it I was thinking that it was a lucky circumstance that that part is fragile, because all the energy dissipated there, and other more sensible parts got unharmed. The bottom line is: put your bag on the floor before it falls, so it is already there... NB: I am still using the Hadley Pro, that has since I bought it the upgrading of a more substantial padding on the bottom than the original one. What happened is not the bag's fault, of course. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Messsucherkamera Posted April 3, 2012 Author Share #19 Posted April 3, 2012 The bottom line is: put your bag on the floor before it falls, so it is already there... Agreed - if you are in a car, that is. My mishaps have taken place when on foot - one due to distraction (with the M4-P). The previous one involving the MP was due to a bad knee giving way after getting a toe caught on a cracked and buckled sidewalk. Nowadays I'm very much on the lookout for such hazards when on foot. Although not without unpleasantness, bloody sidewalk fall injuries will self repair and cost nothing. That's obviously not the case with Leica repairs. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter_n Posted April 3, 2012 Share #20 Posted April 3, 2012 I'd say be glad you didn't have a Domke or an M-Classics or some other sparsely-padded bag.About four years ago I tripped over some uneven pavement going to work and my bag went over my head in an arc and smashed into the ground. There was an M7 with a 35 Summicron in it and both were miraculously unharmed, unlike me. The camera was end-on in a compartment, the way I usually carry. The bag was a Safrotto copy of the Domke F-803 and the Safrotto comes with extremely well padded quality inserts. I remember thinking at the time how happy I was that I'd replaced the Domke with a supposedly inferior knock-off. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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