inurr Posted March 20, 2012 Share #1 Â Posted March 20, 2012 Advertisement (gone after registration) New at this forum. I own an M6 and an M9. The more I look at the M6, the more I do not understand why Leica does not offer a digital conversion for these cameras M5,6,7,etc. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted March 20, 2012 Share #2  Posted March 20, 2012 Welcome to the forum  Technically it's not possible and Leica want to sell new cameras. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lars_bergquist Posted March 20, 2012 Share #3  Posted March 20, 2012 Theoretically, it is possible. They did it with the DMR (Digital Module R) for the R8/R9 cameras. It could be done for the M4-2 and later film cameras. But like the DMR, it would have to be someting like a big motor cum back – very large and clumsy. Few people would be interested in such a contraption, really. And remember that the DMR was never a serious commercial proposition either. I understand that production was limited to about 2000 piece, so this was essentially a non-secret internal research project. Like the original 35mm Summilux Aspherical, for instance, with the same limitation.  So Leica has a penchant for this sort of thing, but like with the examples cited, it has to lead the company forward, not backward, in other to be worthwhile.  LB Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbealnz Posted March 20, 2012 Share #4 Â Posted March 20, 2012 I'm new here too, but have to agree, I have often wondered why they didn't make a sensor clip on attachment. I guess Andy has it by the short and curlies, they want to sell new cameras. Gary Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
masjah Posted March 20, 2012 Share #5  Posted March 20, 2012 I'm new here too, but have to agree, I have often wondered why they didn't make a sensor clip on attachment. I guess Andy has it by the short and curlies, they want to sell new cameras.Gary  Actually I think Lars has it too. Such a conversion, in the present state of the art, might be theoretically possible, but the result would have to be so clumsy and clunky that the whole of the raison d'etre for an M camera would be destroyed - put simply, it would no longer be an M. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wda Posted March 20, 2012 Share #6 Â Posted March 20, 2012 If it had been technically feasible, I am sure Leica would have tried that solution during the long barren period when they had little to offer in the digital field. Â And Welcome to the Forum, inurr! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lars_bergquist Posted March 20, 2012 Share #7  Posted March 20, 2012 Advertisement (gone after registration) Well, 'the long period when Leica was barren in the digital field' was caused by the fact that during that time, a large sensor for cameras with such a short back focus simply wasn't possible. It was made possible only with the advent of advanced microlens technique, and how difficult that was is demonstrated by the fact that the first digital M, the M8, had to use a cropped sensor.  So would a 'digitalised' film M camera (for the same reason that the DMR used one) – the whole sensor, not only the light-sensitive part, had to fit inside the film window! And while the necessary finder modification with the R9 was a simple change of finder screen, with an M it would have meant an exchange of the actual finder frame masks, a ticklish piece of surgery that would have to be done at an authorised workshop or in Solms itself, meaning that the conversion would in practice be irreversible.  In other words, a digital conversion would not have been technically possible earlier than the construction of an actual, natively digital M – the M8. And yes, it would have been an absurd clunker of a camera.  LB Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ho_co Posted March 21, 2012 Share #8 Â Posted March 21, 2012 To see how all that stuff is packed into the M8 body, see Mark Norton's disassembly of same, http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-m8-forum/21331-anatomy-leica-m8.html. There's probably not a single piece of the M8 (M9) that's the same as the M6. Â Start with the shutter, which only goes to 1/1000 sec, and not nearly reliably enough to serve for digital. Realize that with digital, you can't have a plate that flops back and forth on the back. You don't need/can't use the pressure plate/film tunnel. And with the extra thickness that a digital back implies, the eye moves backward, so you wouldn't be able to use the 0.72x rangefinder. Everything would have to be changed--which is what Leica did. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted March 21, 2012 Share #9 Â Posted March 21, 2012 I remember a thread on some other forum years before the M8 arrived. Someone had taken a hacksaw to an M body and some crop sensor camera, with the intention of making the first digital M camera. The project petered out, or at least I never saw any conclusion to it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
greyelm Posted March 21, 2012 Share #10 Â Posted March 21, 2012 This is the nearest I have seen. The video has been around for a while. Â Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
farnz Posted March 23, 2012 Share #11 Â Posted March 23, 2012 Some years ago an enterprising chap embarked on a project to develop a digital sensor et al contained in a container that would fit into the space afforded by a 135 film cassette so that any 135 film camera could take the container. Pictures and info here. Â I believe he got to the third version and quite close to actually getting a commercially viable product to work before his backers ran out of money or got cold feet. It looks like an interesting concept and I have to wonder whether technological advances in the intervening years might have tipped the balance to now make this achievable. I'd presume that perhaps the greatest challenge to this concept would be consistently getting the sensor to accurately sit in the right place owing to the inherent micro-tolerances. Â Pete. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ornello Posted March 23, 2012 Share #12  Posted March 23, 2012 Well, 'the long period when Leica was barren in the digital field' was caused by the fact that during that time, a large sensor for cameras with such a short back focus simply wasn't possible. It was made possible only with the advent of advanced microlens technique, and how difficult that was is demonstrated by the fact that the first digital M, the M8, had to use a cropped sensor. LB  Indeed, Leica vehemently insisted that is was not possible to come up with a full-frame digital M camera....until it was. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ornello Posted March 23, 2012 Share #13  Posted March 23, 2012 Welcome to the forum  Technically it's not possible and Leica want to sell new cameras.  Correct. The body is too thin. The M9 is thicker than an M4. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill Posted March 23, 2012 Share #14 Â Posted March 23, 2012 Indeed, Leica vehemently insisted that is was not possible to come up with a full-frame digital M camera....until it was. Â They said it was not possible with current technology. Please get your facts straight. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted March 23, 2012 Share #15 Â Posted March 23, 2012 Correct. The body is too thin. The M9 is thicker than an M4. Â You have not read the original post correctly. The OP wants to convert an old FILM M into a digital one. The thickness of the body is irrelevant, it's just not possible for a number of technical reasons. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jankap Posted March 23, 2012 Share #16 Â Posted March 23, 2012 My father once bought a If, he let it convert to a IIf. My parents gave it to me for my bachelor exam in 1959. Due to a piece of film in the shutter we send the camera to Leica to convert it into a IIIf (IIIf-ltm-analog). Â I would be ready for the next cycle, namely the conversion to a If-ltm-digital. For Leica: I could live with an external EVF (with live view) instead of an LCD. Jan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ww@lt Posted March 23, 2012 Share #17  Posted March 23, 2012 Theoretically, it is possible. They did it with the DMR (Digital Module R) for the R8/R9 cameras. It could be done for the M4-2 and later film cameras. But like the DMR, it would have to be someting like a big motor cum back – very large and clumsy. Few people would be interested in such a contraption, really. And remember that the DMR was never a serious commercial proposition either. I understand that production was limited to about 2000 piece, so this was essentRially a non-secret internal research project. Like the original 35mm Summilux Aspherical, for instance, with the same limitation. So Leica has a penchant for this sort of thing, but like with the examples cited, it has to lead the company forward, not backward, in other to be worthwhile.  LB  R8/9 was designed to accept a digital module, while the old Ms are pure mechanical and so it would be hard for the sensor to know when the shutter is fired........ Besides many other technical issues..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
giordano Posted March 23, 2012 Share #18 Â Posted March 23, 2012 while the old Ms are pure mechanical and so it would be hard for the sensor to know when the shutter is fired........ Â This shouldn't be a problem with the real old Ms: just plug the back into the FP (flashbulb) synch socket! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted March 23, 2012 Share #19 Â Posted March 23, 2012 ....and even if it WAS possible how much do you think it would sell for? I suspect that it would cost as much or more than an M9 body. You'd be willing to pay that would you? Â Thought not. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
prk60091 Posted March 24, 2012 Share #20 Â Posted March 24, 2012 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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